Jan. 14, 2025

Bantams-Part 1

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast, hosts Mandelyn, John, and Rip delve into the miniature but giant world of Bantam chickens. They discuss the origins, types, and physical characteristics of Bantams, emphasizing that they are mostly smaller versions of large fowl.

The discussion covers advantages of raising Bantams in urban settings, their loudness, and their ability to fly and brood effectively. They also explore egg production, dual-purpose possibilities, temperament, and nutrition, debunking the myth that Bantams require different feed than large fowl. Plus, there are anecdotes about Bantams' predator awareness and interactions.

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Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Keepers Podcast.

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In today's episode Mandelyn, John, and Rip will explore the fascinating world of the smallest class of chickens, the Bantams.

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Now, here's Mandelyn Royal to get us started.

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Hello poultry keepers.

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On this episode of our podcast, we're going to be discussing the giant world of the smallest chickens.

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We're going to talk about bantams and the different types and different size ranges they come in with and how to feed them, how to care for them, and how they compare to their large fowl counterparts.

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It's going to be packed with a bunch of topics, so we're going to try to get through that the best way we know how.

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Talking about chickens.

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I think probably the best place to start is, what is a bantam?

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Bantams are basically, for the most part, miniature versions of their large fowl counterpart.

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How did they originate?

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Did somebody keep selecting smaller and smaller birds of their variety?

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Or were they crossed specifically with the Old English Game Bird and a largefowl counterpart to be created?

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There are some natural bantams.

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Seabrights are, because there's no largefowl counterpart.

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Nankings are another one.

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No largefowl counterpart.

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But there was a lot of mixed breed bantams to begin with.

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So basically how most of the breeds were created was crossing the bantam size bird with the appropriate breed or variety they were trying to create.

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As a rule of thumb, bantams weigh about one fifth of what a large fowl will, and that's a pretty good estimate.

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So if you look at the type description, it's the same, it's just the overall size is what's different.

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As a rule of thumb, bantams weigh about one fifth of what a large fowl will, and that's a pretty So that gives them an advantage right off the bat of if you live in an urban area, they don't require as much space, they don't require as much feed they're much easier to manage, they're not as loud and noisy,

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there'll be less manure to mitigate, oh yeah, and everything,

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absolutely.

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When those little cockerels do start crowing though, it is extra squeaky.

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I just started saying it does get shrill.

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That's for sure.

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I was actually talking to my audiologist about this.

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Because I have an Apple watch, started an alarm one day, cause I was working out in the coop and one of the roosters crowed, and it said that I was in a high decibel environment and I should have hearing protection on it.

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I'm like, Oh my God.

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Wow, my watch told me that.

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That's weird.

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And I asked my audiologist about it.

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They said, Oh yeah, they, a rooster crows at 112 decibels and the human threshold for pain is below that.

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And the human threshold for damage is below that.

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So don't do that.

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Wear your hearing protection when you're in the coop.

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I've never done that.

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I'll wear a face mask, but I never thought about earplugs.

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Have you had a rooster crow two feet away from your head?

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Yeah, when they sit on my lap, it's one of those extra friendly ones.

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Yeah, but it hurts.

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It's loud.

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It hurts.

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Yeah.

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And

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then it, so if you're in an urban environment and there's a prohibition against roosters, the bantams, they're not a way around because they're just as loud as their bigger counterparts.

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I think they crow more frequently sometimes.

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Definitely.

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Yeah, they seem to be a little extra proud of it.

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Because when I first got started in the poultry, I had bantams.

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for years before I got a large fowl chicken of any kind and I had the old English games, some black rose comb Japanese sea brides and those boys would curl more.

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It just didn't have the depth to carry as far, whereas a large fowl male, you can hear him a mile away sometimes, especially if it's damp outside or foggy, that sound will carry further, but those high pitched squeaky ones, the immediate neighbors are definitely going to hear them.

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But they're outstanding at being a natural alarm system.

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Oh, they're extra diligent.

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And they will initiate, basically it's a bantam chorus where they'll spread out and become your outer ring of protection for predators and help protect the inner flock.

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It's a pretty interesting phenomenon that I was reading a research paper on.

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And they forage pretty good, as if they have more in common with their jungle fowl ancestors.

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Yeah, they're

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all around

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great.

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That's why we're talking about them.

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And another thing they do better than largefowl is fly.

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Oh yeah, they'll get ten foot up in the air just to roost, and they can do that from the ground.

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Absolutely.

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Increased predator protection, because they're tree roosting, they can get away from the ground based predators like skunk and mink and ermine.

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Those are my threats here.

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And I will say to me, bantam females make a bit better broody than largefowl.

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They're more protective of the chicks.

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Of course they can't brood as many chicks as the largefowl can, but they can raise some dynamite chicks that way.

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I know several people that have maintained a flock of silkies just to use the silkies as broody hens because those things see an egg and they want to go sit on it.

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I've never seen I had

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a couple who, they weren't silkies, they were just regular bantams, but if they somewhat just saw three eggs sitting in one spot, they were like, oh my goodness, someone needs to sit on those.

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Yep, exactly right

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now.

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It brought up a good idea, Rip, of using a bantam hen to raise, A group of chicks, because we know hen raised chicks are just the most bestest thing ever.

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Now if we give some chicks to a bantam hen who's got this natural ability that's just still amazing, I think those chicks could pick up a whole bunch of learned behaviors really fast.

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Oh yeah, no doubt about that.

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Accelerate their education, so to speak.

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I know a lot of people that raise other breeds of bantams or even other breeds of large fowl That would use bantams as setting hens and that's the only way they'll raise chickens is they use a bantam female to hatch and raise those chicks.

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Surrogate mother type thing because they do such a really good job.

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Great.

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Another case for the bantams.

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Their small size does make them real easy to handle, but I would.

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Caution on paying attention to the temperament of the cockerels because they're, if they have that mind to come at you, they're still going to do it with all the force they can muster up.

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And you might just have to knock them back with a little fly swatter because they're so little, but sometimes their attitude can be a little bit more than what their body size is.

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And other

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times they're perfect pets.

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They're and some breeds.

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For example, in largefowl that are very common sedate, when you get them in bantam size breeds, they can be really aggressive.

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Matt Lamont and Michael Sayre have a line of white coaching bantams, white coaching largefowl, very calm, very laid back.

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So what?

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That's their attitude towards life.

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They literally nicknamed that line of white coaching bantams white devils because they'll jump on you just looking at your crossways.

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They don't recommend those for kids.

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But yet there's some breeds of bantams that I people will ask me on a regular basis.

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What, my kid wants to raise chickens, what breed should I get?

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And there's some of them that are just as sweet natured as they can be.

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Modern games.

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They look a little bit gangly and odd with that long neck and those long legs and they stand pretty much upright.

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But, I've tried to think back, I don't think I have ever encountered An ill tempered modern game in all the shows that I've judged.

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I don't think I ever encountered a mean old English game bantam and that was the bulk of my flock with beady reds and a couple other colors.

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And those

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boys would feed me as if I was a hen and they'd do their little dance around my ankle and they'd say here I found this for you.

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I had some black old English one time and they were.

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vicious.

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I'll just leave it at that.

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The males were a little bit more aggressive than the average.

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So how did we

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get to all these bantams and all these varieties?

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I get a little bewildered because to me they're more confusing than chicken varieties because they're usually colors and abbreviations and stuff how did they originate initially?

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Like I said, some of them were naturally bantam breeds.

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Huh.

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And then the others were created just from crossing large fowl breeds.

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On to bantams, and then selecting for size over several generations.

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And all the varieties that we have, we've thrown a whole bunch of terms around.

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Can we describe what those are, briefly?

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A BB red?

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That's just a black breasted red is what that means.

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BB red is black breasted red.

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And it's just the plumage color?

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That's the plumage

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color, that's all tastes like

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chicken?

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It

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all tastes like chicken.

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Great.

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All right.

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And that's Just to set the framework here.

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The geneticists will refer to that a lot of times as wild type, because that's the wild coloration of red jungle fowl, and BB reds are sometimes confused by new people as red jungle fowl, because they look so very similar.

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All right.

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Yeah, that's true.

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Now, when it comes to egg production, it seemed pretty typical for my flock to do an egg every other day, but it was bigger than a quail egg.

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Yes.

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Probably double the size of a quail egg, loosely.

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If I remember correctly, Mandelyn, and I might not, so don't hold me to it too much, but it takes three bantam eggs to equal a large sized chicken egg.

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That sounds about right.

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When I was doing breakfast when I was like 12 years old, I was using at least six bantam eggs to do an omelette.

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Yeah that makes sense.

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And then there's some bantams saramas, for example, and kiri kiris.

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Both of those lay very small eggs.

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I mean, Sarama,

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they're the smallest bantam, like the smallest of the smallest.

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I've seen some of their eggs were just barely bigger than a quail egg.

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And I think their breed standard is less than a pound.

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Oh yeah.

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Where some bantams can go up closer to two pounds.

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And honestly, some bantam breeds today, they've gotten them too large.

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I pick up a, Rhode Island Red male bantam that weighs three pounds plus, that's not right.

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I've seen Cornish bantams where you'd have to, you couldn't bring them straight out of the show coop.

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You had to tilt them at a 45 degree angle and bring them out that way to get them out.

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Oh yeah,

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that does sound big for a bantam.

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It is, and that's why it's important.

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To weigh the birds.

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People are not weighing the birds, and I'm not just picking on bantam people, but I see large fowl people are as guilty of that as anybody, but it's important to weigh your birds.

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Keep everything in the standard weight.

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Here's a breed that was designed to be small.

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Don't grow them too big through selection or breeding.

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Currently, there's

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work being done to bring bantam marans into existence, and right now, Beb Davis is working on a couple.

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Color patterns and working on that egg color to get the miniature version of a dark brown layer.

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That's pretty exciting stuff I've been watching their progress Bantam Marans

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I was going to say something, I just lost my train of thought, imagine that Sorry, I had a thought pop

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in about those little Marans I'm excited about

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No, that's fine.

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One thing I was going to say is their size You can put more of them in the same size area than you ever could a large fowl.

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Space requirements, they're delightful.

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Yeah, it's practically, what, 3 to 1?

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About that, yeah.

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Maybe 4 to 1.

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The nest box can be smaller, too.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, if you give bantams A nest box that's too big, you're invariably going to go in there and you're going to find two or three or four females in the same nest box.

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And four separate nests.

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Yeah, one in each

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corner.

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That's just a recipe for broken or cracked hatching eggs.

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Yes, it is.

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And they, I like to have a nest box that's just big enough for them to turn around in, but not by much.

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They seem to do better.

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With those kind of nest boxes.

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So for space requirements, they're actually setting part of it for us.

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We need smaller nest boxes to prevent this from happening.

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But overall, you just need a smaller footprint to raise a lot more birds, actually, if you choose that route.

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When it comes to equipment, they can use equipment designed for large bowels, feeders and waterers.

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Just put some dividers in your nest

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boxes and you're good to go.

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So

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here's a question.

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Can bantams be dual purpose?

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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You can get

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quite good meat off a bantam.

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Back when I was raising Rhode Island red bantams, honestly, those females were better layers than my largefowl Rhode Island reds.

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Oh.

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And I've got a friend here in Florida that has crossed Rhode Island red bantams and New Hampshire bantams, and those things are amazing.

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at putting eggs out on the table.

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There was someone

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a couple years ago who was posting carcass pictures of Bantam New Hampshire

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and

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that was a pretty respectable looking carcass.

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I was like, oh yeah they do look edible.

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Look at that.

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I think that was Tim Juergens.

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He had those and he had no,

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that was his Chanticleers.

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Yeah, he had Chanticleers.

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And he had reds at one time.

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Okay.

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I've seen his bantam Chanticleers and they're nice, meaty little.

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But the dual purpose breeds in large fowl are going to be the same way in bantams.

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You've got your reds, your rocks, your wind dots, all of those make a good dual purpose breed in bantams.

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And with the space and feed requirements being lower if you want to have a breeding pool in the same footprint.

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Bantams are certainly a great way to go.

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Oh, absolutely.

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And honestly, another advantage of bantams we haven't touched on, we've talked about their size, but their size also makes it much easier for a youth member to handle and to work with.

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Yeah,

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that's true.

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Much easier for kids to handle.

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And temperament.

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Yeah, people, I'm always breeding for temperament because I'm always thinking about that.

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But bantams, if you know where they come from and have chosen from a line that's noted for its temperament again, ideal situation for youth and for H and FFA.

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But, bantams can be Every bit is practical to raise and to keep as large fowl breeds.

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You said

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egg production.

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I'm always talking about, sustainability and all that.

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So what kind of numbers can we expect for eggs?

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I would say four a week is fair.

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Okay.

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It was not uncommon for me.

00:16:06.942 --> 00:16:12.913
to hit 260 plus eggs a year from my bantam raids

00:16:13.712 --> 00:16:15.663
and they're about half the size

00:16:16.462 --> 00:16:18.153
no they're much less than that

00:16:18.342 --> 00:16:19.732
much less a quarter

00:16:20.533 --> 00:16:20.962
i'm trying to

00:16:20.962 --> 00:16:28.643
remember off the top of my head what the 25 those bb eggs that i got John,

00:16:29.442 --> 00:16:35.863
when was the last time you went to a poultry show where you got to see all the different breeds and all the different classes lined up with each other?

00:16:36.212 --> 00:16:36.543
Never.

00:16:36.552 --> 00:16:36.663
Because

00:16:36.663 --> 00:16:42.302
that's when you could really see the striking difference between the large fowl and the bantam.

00:16:43.102 --> 00:16:46.003
No, I've never been to a show, there's goals in life.

00:16:46.802 --> 00:16:51.763
Just go to one, and it makes a lot of impact on, oh, wow.

00:16:52.562 --> 00:16:54.873
We were close this year.

00:16:54.873 --> 00:16:58.783
CycleCon almost lined up with the National Poultry Show.

00:16:59.253 --> 00:17:01.332
In Ohio, we were off by three weeks.

00:17:01.332 --> 00:17:04.262
So I'm going to try and shift that on the steering committee

00:17:04.663 --> 00:17:05.482
to

00:17:05.843 --> 00:17:06.583
line up better,

00:17:07.383 --> 00:17:09.692
but I'll save that for later.

00:17:10.492 --> 00:17:18.742
Anything special that we should consider when housing bantams for, coop design or predator protection?

00:17:19.252 --> 00:17:21.032
Inflated for sure.

00:17:21.573 --> 00:17:26.032
It's, they basically have the same requirements for coops and pens.

00:17:26.833 --> 00:17:27.903
as largefowl.

00:17:28.702 --> 00:17:28.952
Okay,

00:17:29.042 --> 00:17:30.222
Maybe some aviary

00:17:30.222 --> 00:17:35.992
netting over the top because absolutely and they act stupid like they don't know how to get back in after they get out.

00:17:36.522 --> 00:17:37.633
Oh boy, that's the worst.

00:17:38.432 --> 00:17:38.472
That's

00:17:38.482 --> 00:17:39.363
all chickens.

00:17:39.673 --> 00:17:48.972
But yeah, not only are bantams good at flying out, that also makes them an easy target for hawks and birds of prey.

00:17:49.772 --> 00:17:54.383
And their takeout size too, and I had the misfortune of seeing that when I was a kid.

00:17:54.982 --> 00:18:04.742
And it was, late spring, I had a fleet of broodies sitting on eggs, and I had this one little rose combed bantam hen who was already out with her four chicks.

00:18:05.542 --> 00:18:07.002
And a hawk was circling.

00:18:07.462 --> 00:18:09.702
So all the chickens sounded off the alarm.

00:18:09.732 --> 00:18:11.823
Everybody took cover except her.

00:18:11.823 --> 00:18:17.492
She fluffed up, covered her babies right out in the middle of the yard and stared at the sky.

00:18:17.593 --> 00:18:18.423
At that hawk,

00:18:18.452 --> 00:18:19.712
Bring it on, dude.

00:18:19.712 --> 00:18:20.673
I'm ready.

00:18:21.472 --> 00:18:25.702
So that hawk swooped down, plucked her up off the ground and carried her off over the treetops.

00:18:26.502 --> 00:18:29.063
And I had to spend three hours trying to catch her chicks.

00:18:29.863 --> 00:18:32.843
Mandelyn, that brought to mind a funny story.

00:18:33.367 --> 00:18:37.232
I was working out in the yard one day and I had a little black old English hen.

00:18:38.032 --> 00:18:43.573
Running out there was about three or four little chicks, probably a week or two old.

00:18:44.373 --> 00:18:48.373
And there was a hawk sitting up in one of the trees there and he swooped down and just swooped.

00:18:48.423 --> 00:18:53.452
He wasn't going for the birds, but he swooped down over the top of that hen.

00:18:54.252 --> 00:18:56.303
I tell you, that old gal got airborne.

00:18:57.103 --> 00:19:03.913
The hawk lit in the tree, the hen hit the hawk, knocked him off the tree, and then proceeded to get down there and stomp a mud hole in him.

00:19:04.432 --> 00:19:06.542
It was so funny to watch.

00:19:07.232 --> 00:19:12.133
If it would have been a little kestrel or something, she probably would have beat it up and sent it packing.

00:19:12.133 --> 00:19:17.843
But it was a big red tail, so she didn't really stand a chance being out in the open like she was.

00:19:18.262 --> 00:19:19.462
But that doesn't deter

00:19:19.472 --> 00:19:19.623
them.

00:19:20.423 --> 00:19:22.673
Good predator awareness is something to be

00:19:22.903 --> 00:19:22.962
proud of.

00:19:22.962 --> 00:19:26.893
She saw them coming and stood there like a sacrifice.

00:19:26.893 --> 00:19:31.643
I don't think that bantams really realize they're a small chicken.

00:19:32.022 --> 00:19:33.692
No, they're chihuahuas in that aspect.

00:19:33.702 --> 00:19:34.282
Oh yeah,

00:19:34.393 --> 00:19:38.113
they're bring it on, I'll whip you, just try me.

00:19:38.722 --> 00:19:39.692
I'm a real chicken.

00:19:40.492 --> 00:19:47.803
Especially if you've ever seen a bantam cockerel or rooster chasing after large fowl hens.

00:19:48.603 --> 00:19:49.002
Yes.

00:19:49.803 --> 00:19:50.492
They don't know.

00:19:50.512 --> 00:19:52.202
For all they know, they're six foot two.

00:19:53.002 --> 00:19:56.103
For one, one thing we haven't touched on is nutrition.

00:19:56.903 --> 00:20:01.942
And I really want to bring this up because there is a misconception.

00:20:02.742 --> 00:20:03.843
Oh, there's a few.

00:20:04.292 --> 00:20:06.392
There's a couple.

00:20:06.392 --> 00:20:14.602
That bantams require a different food, different type of feed, different ration, than do large fowl.

00:20:15.402 --> 00:20:24.832
Look folks, bantams have the same physiology, the same physical structure, and the same nutrient requirements as large fowl chickens.

00:20:25.632 --> 00:20:33.461
They're not going to eat as much feed, but as long as you're feeding a nutritionally balanced high quality feed, that's all your bantams need.

00:20:34.261 --> 00:20:35.652
And somebody asked me.

00:20:36.152 --> 00:20:37.231
What caused that?

00:20:37.231 --> 00:20:38.112
What started that?

00:20:38.912 --> 00:20:40.112
And I've thought about that.

00:20:40.912 --> 00:20:43.172
As a matter of fact, that might have been you, Mandelyn, I'm not sure.

00:20:43.971 --> 00:20:52.432
But, if you, I didn't hear much about that kind of thing up until about the mid to late 70s.

00:20:53.182 --> 00:20:55.392
This brings us to the close of another episode.

00:20:55.392 --> 00:21:05.211
We invite you to join us next Tuesday when we'll bring you part 2 of Bantams, right here on the Poultry Keepers Podcast, where we talk poultry from feathers, to function.