June 30, 2025
Culling With Clarity-Part 1
In this insightful episode of The Poultry Keepers Podcast, Rip Stalvey, Mandelyn Royal, and John Gunterman have a deep and honest discussion on one of the most challenging but essential parts of poultry keeping: culling.
But wait—culling isn’t just about processing birds. It’s about decision-making. It’s about your flock’s future. It’s about refining your breeding goals, making tough calls, and protecting your reputation as a poultry keeper. Whether you raise birds for meat, eggs, show, or dual purpose, you’ll walk away from this episode with fresh insight into what culling really means—and how to do it ethically, practically, and confidently.
From understanding structural and performance-based flaws to making hard decisions around age, behavior, and utility, this episode covers it all. Hear real-life stories, advice, and proven methods that will change how you think about managing your flock for long-term success.
Please visit https://www.thepoultrykeeperspodcast.com for more great podcast content, bonus episodes, and resources to help you raise better birds.
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WEBVTT
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Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Keepers Podcast, the show for small flock enthusiasts who want to raise better birds and make more informed decision.
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I'm your host Rip Stalvey and I'm joined by Mandelyn Royal and John Gunterman.
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And we're gonna be talking about something every poultry keeper has to face sooner or later Culling.
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Now, hold on.
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I'm not talking about killing.
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Nope.
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When I say culling, it means evaluating and how you choose to manage your cause can make or break your breeding program, your flock, the flock's, health, and your peace of mind.
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So grab a cup of coffee and settle in.
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We're going deep today.
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Hey John and Mandelyn.
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Welcome to Good to See You guys.
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Hey.
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Hey.
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Good to be here.
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Let's just drive, dive right in here.
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Mandelyn, how would you define culling?
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I have mind flock split up into percentages of how they're called, and so some of'em are absolutely dinner.
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So those would be the terminal calls that shouldn't leave my property.
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Now, the others, it's a multitude of reasons, but there are plenty of serviceable birds, just not in my program, but those are the ones that can go on and potentially start a new flock or be productive somewhere else.
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And then there's the birds that I keep, so it's like a 10 to 20% retention rate, and then it's about 20 to 30% share rate, and then it's about a 50% call rate because we get hungry, we eat a lot of chicken.
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John, what about you?
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What how do you define culling?
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In the simplest terms, it's just removal from the future breeding pool.
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That doesn't mean, instant dinner time, but the birds can certainly serve out a useful and productive life.
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It just means that they've been deselected for future breeding.
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Yeah, I, I like to think of culling as a time, not just for removing birds from the flock, but for one part of my selection process and refinement of where I want to go.
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And I, it's so important that folks have a goal because that's gonna help them as they go through culling their birds.
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What do you want from your flock?
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You want meat, you want eggs, you want dual purpose, you want show all that's gonna factor in.
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And I like to think about it as purpose driven flock decision.
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Yes.
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Kind of what Mandelyn was talking about there when she was talking.
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But
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and it's something that gets a lot easier the more that you do it.
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And I, I don't just mean the emotional factor of.
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Deselecting a bird, but just the sorting process, the more you do it, the more uniform and the more homogenous your flock is going to be, and you're gonna have less and less outliers to remove.
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From your breeding pool if you're doing your job correctly.
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Absolutely.
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Once you break your mindset of the hatch aholic, let's just hatch everything I've got with every possible combination and see what I get, and then keep the best from that.
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That's what I would call a scatter shotgun approach to it, and it's not gonna get you very far, very fast, and it's going to be very expensive in food and labor and maintenance and just everything.
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And I think a lot about it in terms of pen space because I know the space the birds need.
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Yes.
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And I know my hatch capacity and I know my grow out capacity and I know my retention capacity.
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So let's you know, let's utilizing that time and money and space on inferior birds.
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And I have enough pen space to where I can be a little bit generous in what I hold on to longer, but not by much.
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I think that's good because I found, for me at least, that pen space helped me in my culling because I knew that if I crowded them too much by keeping too many uhhuh, that was gonna come back to bite me.
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Because they're not gonna do well, they're not gonna perform well.
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And that's actually the way I've designed my system.
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And the number of eggs that I set, I specifically have the CT 60 60 Inc.
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Egg incubator.
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And my brooders are in stages.
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So as I'm going along, I'm constantly going down.
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By the time I'm at three weeks, half of my birds can go for sale.
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Very strong with who I want.
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What John, quick question here, but what are some of the things that you look for, like faults in your birds?
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When you're going through and cuddling, what's some of the things that you look for?
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Physical traits in your birds.
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Anything?
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Not to the standard.
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Any physical deformity of any kind.
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Cross beat, crooked toe.
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Anything that I don't want to see in my future generations gets removed from the breeding pool.
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And if I can identify who the parents were, I wanna reach back and remove the parents from the gen pool as well.
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Absolutely.
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You know that they're still throwing this, so I need to get it out.
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You talk about removing faults and all that.
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There's an expression out there that the longer you tolerate something in your breeding flock, the longer you're gonna have it.
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Yes, this is true.
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I'm doing that with leg color now because I was choosing structure over light color.
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And so guess what's persistent Uhhuh?
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Good structure with variable leg color.
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Imagine that
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Mandelyn.
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The question for you is, how does that help you with the dual purpose practicality of your birds when you're going through and cuing what's some of the things that you concentrate on there?
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I do a lot of it gender based, and that controls my timing as well because the females take more time and the males, unless you're parat one-to-one, you really don't need that many males.
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And the more of them that I can get out of the way and off the feed bill, the more efficient I can be.
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And then the more pen space and attention I can give to the females.
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So I'm looking for that earlier.
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Meat production.
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To accelerate that process because I'm not the most patient person, and so I'm a little bit excited right now of starting my new little breed adventure with the LER because it's going teach me a little bit more patience than what I have.
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I already know it's gonna be more of a slow burn with them.
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Yeah, so that'll be a nice adjustment for me.
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You, you were talking about being patient and when you said that, I immediately thought, I don't know too many poultry people that are all that patient anymore.
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Most people aren't.
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And so it's quite the change when you get into some of those older breeds and those older bloodlines and that slow burn methodology, it's night and day different than working with commercial hybrids.
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It is completely different if you're trying to make that switch into sustainable poultry it's a longer wait, and you do need to pick up those breeding tools to help you find that success within it, which is what we talk about.
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Absolutely.
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Stuff.
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That's why we're here.
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So I would Go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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Go ahead.
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So with what I said earlier about doing almost like a gender focus between male and female and those different timelines, it's almost like I'm running two different flocks through Grow out and then the mini flocks within the age groups, because like we said in our last two part episode of Selection, it's at different stages and you don't wanna do it all at once.
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And there's a multitude of reasons on how you could be sorting your birds.
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Like behavior is one of'em.
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Temperament.
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Oh yeah.
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Health and vigor it.
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The breed standard traits, the utility traits.
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There's a lot of reasons of why and when
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and who.
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Let's flesh this train of thought.
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We got going here out a little bit, but.
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I like to think when I'm culling, I like to look for visual defects and body type first.
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And one thing that too many people don't focus on anymore is performance cu.
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Do they come from a good egg producer or a poor egg producer?
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What's their body growth?
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What's the feed efficiency like?
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For those birds.
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Definitely not many people are out there checking on feed de efficiencies, unfortunately, because gosh, if you don't know what it cost you to raise a bird or to get a dozen eggs, you can go broke faster.
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You can, and this is a consideration sometimes when I'm setting people up if they're buying chicks from me, if they're looking for production to help offset, their family food bill.
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I think it's very important that they, get their stock from somebody who can say, these chicks were all hatched from hens who lay five to six eggs a day.
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Versus it's a barnyard mix.
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I can't tell you what you're gonna get or how many eggs you're gonna get per week.
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A it's not a good way to set somebody up for success and have a good launch into the poultry world.
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But, b, it's just not cost effective.
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You're setting your customers up for failure, and that's just not a good way of doing business.
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I don't believe my customers get really my best or at the very close second best, because I very good have that financial obligation as well.
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Okay?
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If they're just going down the road to one of the poultry farms to be raised for meat on pasture.
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Fine.
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I don't care.
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They're gonna eat bugs and grass and grit all day long and have happy chicken lives and become somebody's dinner and that's fine.
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Madeline, you were talking about behavioral goals.
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Okay.
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Calling for behavior.
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And when we say that I get afraid that people think we're talking primarily about aggressiveness towards people.
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Oh, no, there's more to it than that.
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Yeah.
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It is aggressive toward each other.
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Are they nervous, Nellie?
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Are they calm?
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All that kind of factors in as to where I wanna keep a bird or not.
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And a call to me is one that's too calm.
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There's a balance in their energy.
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I wanna see not a flat lunatic and not a lazy bum.
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I want that solid middle ground.
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Yeah.
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And as a cohort of chicks, you could see, a couple are always standing with their face, in a corner away from the group.
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Then there's gonna be a whole bunch in a group, and then there's gonna be two or three running around the group, acting like little butt heads.
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And I have found that the overly calm birds tend to produce birds that are not as well for vigor as I would like to see.
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And chicks.
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I don't know if y'all have experienced that or not.
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Yes, I have.
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And those dile lap type RO birds that wanna be your best friend, they're probably gonna have the lowest fertility when they're a year and a half, two years old.
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They're just gonna bottom out
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Uhhuh, but they're going to produce a very fine meat bird.
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Oh yeah.
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The lazier birds do make a better meat bird because they sit around and eat too much.
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Huh.
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And as long as you have'em in the freezer before 18 weeks, your feed efficiency is good.
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Yes.
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Oh yes.
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After 18 weeks, you start losing feed efficiency more and more like on a weekly basis.
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So that's why my targets our 14 to 18 weeks, and I see that better efficiency at 14 weeks depending on rate of gain and all that stuff.
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And after 18 weeks now you're just feeding out money and you're not gonna see much significant gain at a speedy rate.
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No.
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That's kinda like my grandfather's expression.
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Makes about as much sense much sense as throwing money in a hog pen and hollering suey.
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But yeah, it's like
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When your pigs hit 300 pounds and they're eating 50 pounds of feed every three days, the efficiency's gone.
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The meaningful gain is over with.
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Yes, sir.
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What about, and this is something I don't think many folks think about either, but age-based culling?
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Or when older birds aren't contributing.
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What's your thoughts on that?
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It depends on if they are having an issue that contributes to that reduced rate of lay, because I'll hear.
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Chitter chatter from folks saying, yeah, my birds are 16 months old and the rate of age is bottomed out, plummeted.
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I'm getting zero eggs.
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And my first question is did you check for obesity?
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Did you like, what's their malt schedule?
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Because at 18 months that big malts get ready to happen, but they can still pop back into production if that Molt was managed well, and they're a good layer.
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You'll find out after that malt, but right when they turn eight, nine months old, if they're gonna get obese from how you're feeding'em by 1-year-old, you're not gonna get very many eggs.
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And so you wanna rule out husbandry and dietary reasons for why they're not laying that good, because it could be something that might have been your fault, not their fault.
00:13:51.591 --> 00:13:58.042
But if you know you're that they're getting the right care, the right feed, the right management, and they're still not laying, then yeah.
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Pull'em out and move on.
00:14:00.621 --> 00:14:00.772
Yeah.
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Really what we want to do is have each bird live up to its genetic potential.
00:14:06.772 --> 00:14:07.101
True.
00:14:07.822 --> 00:14:08.091
Very true.
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Yeah.
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One of the things that I like to look for when we're talking about age, if I have male or female, either one doesn't.
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Doesn't make any difference that routinely produce better chicks than they are themselves.
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That's the most valuable to find.
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I just started to say that is a real gem you want to hang onto as long as you possibly can because they're hard to come by.
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Yeah,
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less than 10%.
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Much less, or if you have 1%
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a, a very old bird who just has a lot of life experience.
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I've mentioned this hen that I have here that I sold several years ago to a friend up on the hill, and then it went to another friend of mine.
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And, this hen is back to me for breeding purposes because, she has just really proven herself to be outstanding at raising chicks.
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Obviously outstanding at predator awareness and just staying alive in this environment is something to be commended.
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Having these proven winners really helps and having the numbers to back it up, if she's got a wing band, I could look at her daily weights from hatch through three weeks.
00:15:23.162 --> 00:15:27.091
And, John, one thing I've found that not only do birds like that.
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Pass along those genetics for that trait.
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But they also serve as trainers for young birds, almost.
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Oh, entirely.
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Oh, I love
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a good training bird.
00:15:42.211 --> 00:15:42.392
Yes.
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I'm actually making, trying to make her go broody now by just not collecting eggs for her.
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However long it takes for her to get it in her head.
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She wants to start sitting because I want her to raise out as many chicks as I can this year because that accumulated knowledge that she has in that brain of hers just from being alive that long.
00:16:02.927 --> 00:16:09.100
And what she can impart to those chicks is not something any farmer could ever hope to do.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.169
And I know the tendency is for most poultry keepers and they've fallen into this trap.
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Put out by the universities.
00:16:17.779 --> 00:16:26.450
But in fairness, that's because you're used to dealing with hybrid birds, but you raise a bird, starts laying, you keep it for a year, and then you get rid of it.
00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:30.529
That's, that doesn't give you any longevity.
00:16:30.889 --> 00:16:36.039
It doesn't give you the opportunity to take advantage of the birds like we're talking about here.
00:16:36.429 --> 00:16:39.730
And add that genetic wisdom, so to speak, to the flock.
00:16:39.830 --> 00:16:40.220
That's right.
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.840
And it's the only way to get these long-term numbers on your birds.
00:16:45.330 --> 00:16:52.711
How do you know, unless your customers or the people that you've, set up with flocks, come back to you and say, Hey, these birds are real duds.
00:16:52.711 --> 00:16:55.652
They just peter out after two years and that's it.
00:16:56.552 --> 00:17:01.272
Now you gotta go, whoa, okay this is 2-year-old news to me.
00:17:01.272 --> 00:17:04.602
Now I've gotta backtrack even further to find out where the problem is.
00:17:05.471 --> 00:17:09.372
So having this active constant feedback loop is really important as well.
00:17:10.241 --> 00:17:28.352
Now, technically, a chicken isn't fully mature in expressing all of their carried traits until they're two years old, and so that's why waiting and testing their longevity and really solidifying your breeding choices doesn't happen until way later.
00:17:29.132 --> 00:17:34.291
And I see a lot of beginners who wanna make all their decisions at 16 weeks, and I'm like whoa.
00:17:34.321 --> 00:17:38.721
No there's a lot more milestones that these birds need to get through.
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Before you really commit to hatching everything she lays, or before you put that mail over all of your females there, there's a lot of milestones.
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And that longevity you don't even know until a minimum of two years.
00:17:55.021 --> 00:17:55.342
And I've.
00:17:56.092 --> 00:17:56.902
I've said this before.
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How's she gonna go through a Molt?
00:17:58.402 --> 00:17:58.672
Yeah.
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Is what
00:17:59.932 --> 00:18:04.731
you don't really know about a bird until they're at least a year old.
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Two years is better.
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A lot of the old timers wouldn't even consider breeding a bird until she was over a year old.
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And they had seen what she did and how she went through the Molt and all that.
00:18:18.436 --> 00:18:18.826
Yeah.
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'cause when you're breeding an eight month old bird, they don't have.
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The longevity piece, they don't have full maturity.
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They don't have that actual finished result.
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All you have is that history leading up to that eight month age point.
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And so like the final filter for me isn't until a year and a half.
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That's my final sort, and that's the fewest number of birds that I have is everything over a year and a half old.
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'cause then I'm at what, like two or 3%.
00:18:50.146 --> 00:18:50.717
Left.
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Oh yeah.
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Is what
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