July 21, 2025
Improving Production In Barred Rocks-Part 2
In this continuation of our in-depth series, host Carey Blackmon is joined by Jeff Mattocks and breeder Jason Yuke as they dive even deeper into Jason’s project to restore production quality in his Barred Plymouth Rocks. From managing harsh climates and selective breeding setbacks to measuring feed conversion, temperament, and thriftiness, this episode offers invaluable insights into the real-world challenges and breakthroughs of small-scale poultry improvement.
Jason discusses genetic bottlenecks, feed errors, managing aggression, breeding for uniformity, and how to identify pivotal "aha" moments when a breeding plan starts to pay off. He also shares advice for new breeders, insights on choosing birds suited to your climate, and the importance of setting clear, long-term goals before selecting your foundation stock.
Plus, we talk about culling practices, chick evaluations, and how Jason is working toward an "Ontario Barred Rock" that thrives in his cold Canadian climate while maintaining productivity and heritage breed standards.
Whether you're a seasoned poultry breeder or a small flock owner just getting started, this episode is packed with tips and perspective that will help you move your flock forward.
To listen now and subscribe for more episodes on poultry breeding, nutrition, and flock management go to www.thepoultrykeeperspodcast.com
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WEBVTT
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Welcome to another episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast.
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In today's episode Jeff Mattocks, Carey Blackmon, and Jason Yuke conclude their discussion on Jason's project to improve production in his flock of Barred Plymouth Rocks.
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So let's join them where they left off last week.
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So there's nothing,
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so tell us about it.
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Some unexpected roadblocks that you might have.
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Either they be genetic or logistical.
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Oh, look, I would say logistics are are tight here.
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Just what Jeff was saying in our climate's, tough even in April and May this year, it was too cold.
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I didn't wanna, I, it was just, it was really just too cold.
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I would've had to have been home that the eggs were freezing.
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So I've got a very small window to breed these birds.
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And so when it's go time, you, I, you have to acclimate the birds.
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You gotta put them in there for three weeks before you actually start collecting eggs.
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So I usually put them in April mid-May.
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I start.
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Collecting them for hatching and you do two, three weeks of collecting eggs and hatching them.
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And then it's just what what Jeff and I were just talking about.
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By the time you, you get the you get the birds up to 50% weight and you get into you get into October and you're starting to get flurries and you're, they are feathered out enough to be resilient.
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But but they spend a little bit more time in the coop getting outta the cold weather.
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But it I don't lose many birds at all to that.
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But I would say logistically that would be the most challenging that's the most challenging endeavor around your area.
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Okay.
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That makes sense.
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Let's see.
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How do you balance performance with things like temperament, thriftiness, seasonal heartiness, and feed conversion?
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Aha.
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I don't put up with a lot of a lot of nonsense in the in the hen house we did buy these to put in the stew pot and honestly, a small story about, about aggression, breeding aggression.
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For some reason I had a recessive gene that came back on me and it, it had a batch of of roosters.
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And I actually didn't use any of them.
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I called them all.
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They just got more aggressive.
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More aggressive.
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More aggressive to the point where, you're trying to sneak around.
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The vehicles so you can get to the chicken coop, so you won't get, you won't get stung from behind.
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I don't put up with that too often.
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There's really a zero chance policy for aggression or aggression around here just because we, the kids and we don't need it.
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Food conversion, I really started to start.
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Paying a little bit more attention to that.
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And that was that's on my on my list of improvements.
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I'll be honest with you, I've got this year, the reason why I say that we had some eggs that got outta hand and and there was a combination of overfeeding and a little bit too much protein.
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In, in, in the feed.
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And that was in my the problem developed in my breeding boxes.
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And it happened real quick.
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I always wanted a, the standard says a mid-size egg, I call that a 60 ounce egg, 57, 60 ounce or 60 gram a I'm sorry.
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And all of a sudden I go out one day and 1 65 and okay.
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And then the other one's 67 and I'm going.
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Maybe they just had a good time, right?
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Maybe.
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And it, I dunno what's going on here.
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And then you go out the next day and the 1 67 and 1 68.
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Within a week I was pushing some 70 gram s.
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And I got I got on on Messenger with Jeff and Jeff says, how much you feeding him?
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And I'm going.
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I hate to tell this guy, he's a nutritionist guy that I don't know, but I really don't know.
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Yeah.
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And he goes you need to cut that down to about three ounces real fast.
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And I did.
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And believe it or not, it didn't take more than a week.
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And everything straightened itself back out.
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So I have cut back considerably.
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And I do have, I do measure now per bird.
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And I found that they got a little bit ory at the three ounces, so I'm closer to the, Jeff told me they would I'm a little bit closer to the to the three and a half, four ounce per bird, but it seems to be, everything seems to be balanced and supplement them.
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I just kept Jeff said, go buy a couple bales of Alfal and throw it in the pen and.
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That seemed to take their mind off the food and give them something to do while they were in the breeding boxes.
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When they're free ranging, there's no problem.
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They seem to get enough on free range.
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So is there any specific moment or breakthrough moment in your breeding program that really stands out where you just looked and said, aha, I think I figured this out.
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I think it
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was this I think it was the F five hatch.
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The F five hatch.
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I bred father back to a bunch of daughters and a mother back to a son.
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And I think on my F five Carrie, I seen more uniformity, like I pay attention to which, and I mark them.
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I've got a red pen, a yellow pen, a green pen.
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But I think if I would've mixed them up this time, I would've been in real trouble.
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I wouldn't have been able to tell what came from what and when I said that, when I thought that you'd pick it up, you'd weigh it.
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Oh, that one's seven point.
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That one's seven pounds, and that one's 7.3 pounds and that one's 6.9 pounds.
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It's ah we're onto something.
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I think the F five, I just stuck with the pro for the program.
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I listened to you guys.
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And I bred and got rid of a few.
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You're not gonna get rid of them all.
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A few recessive genes.
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And I think I'm getting into more.
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Okay.
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I got the bird where I want it physically, and now I work on a little bit of aesthetics.
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Feathering,
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Coloration.
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All right.
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Things like that.
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All right.
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With that, hang on, we'll be right back.
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We would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Trail Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keepers 360 Live programming for Trail has been a trusted name and sustainable farming and poultry nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high quality natural product aligned perfectly with the values we hold there in our poultry community.
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Thank you Patrell for partnering with us to empower poultry keepers everywhere.
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We're truly grateful for your dedication and support.
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So there's lots of folks out there that are new to breeding.
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The last few years it's been a really big craze.
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A lot of people that sell hatching eggs or chicks or whatever have really seen a huge uptick in that.
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Obviously some of them people are probably feeling overwhelmed or whatever.
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What advice would you give someone that wants to improve their own birds?
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Just to improve them and make'em better for the homestead?
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Educate yourself and don't be afraid to I'm not speaking for anybody, but don't be afraid to reach out to people like I'll volunteer me.
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Probably you guys.
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The mistakes we've made, I've made personally, the mistakes I've made in selections and just little things you do wrong could save them years and years and years of working the birds to get them to where they need to be.
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Get, read some books.
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I don't know if you're if they wanna get into the standards that deep.
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But handle your birds.
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That's another big thing.
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Don't be afraid to pick them up.
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They're not porcelain.
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You can, you feel them, shove your fingers into places since you around muscles and back and learn what a good bird is and what a bad bird is.
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And I think that would be a good starting point.
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Know the difference of.
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Or know where you want to go.
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I've seen I did it myself.
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I spent a couple years not knowing where I wanted to go with the birds, and I went nowhere.
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When I first met rip I was asking him some questions like that and he's, he just kept saying what are your goals?
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And, I would think about it and we'd keep talking and he finally said, listen you really need to think about and figure out what your goals are because what your goals are for your birds, we'll dictate the direction you need to go and everybody's different.
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And I was like, man he's onto something.
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And it's forced me to think and stop and sit back and look and listen, which I know that's something that we really don't, we want to think that we've got it under control, but we always don't.
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Yeah.
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When,
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if you look at, if you said you were on F five now if you go back to F1, when you first got the birds that you have now that you're working with.
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What's something that you changed your mind about since starting the project?
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Oh, I would say honestly, is keep more of a positive mind.
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What, which one?
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I guess when I was into F two, I don't know if you can, if you remember your F twos, but F two just wants to make you quit.
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You get some birds and they shouldn't even look like that really.
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But but I guess what I guess in that regard, the best advice I could give anybody is build a game plan and stick to it.
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Don't change your mind, if you start changing your mind you end right back up at square one.
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And I've done that with a line and it's a reboot,
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right?
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So let me ask this.
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Let's say I want to get some chickens and I wanna, do I wanna make'em better?
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Should I, before I even get my first chicken, figure out what my goals are, or wait till I can find some birds and figure out goals based on what I can find.
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Because, oh, I, you can't always find good birds.
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No.
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I I think Carrie, you need to know what you wanna do before you go get them.
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Unless you just want backyard chickens.
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And that is fine too.
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Just having a backyard flock is the thrill to some people.
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And and that's good.
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But I would say that it, what I would do is find the breed or the breed you wanna work with.
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Do some research about that breed make sure that it's suited to your area.
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That's one thing that I, when I went with the barred rocks, the bell didn't go off right.
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I just thought, barred rocks, they'll live everywhere.
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They don't like minus 40 very well.
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And they don't they know they're not very smart when they drink in the wintertime at minus 40, they just keep going back.
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You have to watch, you have to watch that waddle damage.
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But, but yeah, do a little bit of research and what that, what bird is gonna work for you and get the right advice.
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Get the advice from people that want to steer you in the right way versus sell you a bird.
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'Cause there's a lot of people that just wanna sell you a bird.
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Yeah.
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I've had people ask questions and then they would say so and so says this, and I'll say.
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Who, how do you know that person?
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They were somebody that I was talking to about buying birds.
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Yeah.
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You may want to think about that.
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Yeah.
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That could have been the salesman hat that they were wearing.
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Not the friend Tell you about some birds now, right?
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Yeah.
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Ribbons and ribbons bring, make big money, right?
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So yeah, they do.
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So for
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you, your, with you and your bird, they don't
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taste good in the stew Pott?
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They don't,
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no, they don't.
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Although I have a friend, Jennifer, she's won several ribbons with her, or pinks.
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She's got some buffs and they also taste pretty good in the stupot.
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So for you, how do you define success?
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Or what does it look like?
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With your restoration project, say five years from now?
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I would
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say as long as I don't recess in in, keep maintaining.
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If I could fix a trait every few years, I would think that would be successful.
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And not.
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And not make the choices to let the recessive genes go back.
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And it's a really delicate balance, to do that.
00:12:24.331 --> 00:12:29.402
And you can fix one thing and break four, by trying to fix that one thing.
00:12:29.621 --> 00:12:37.932
And yeah, so I'd say a slow, steady approach and small baby steps from here on in not to hurt the production, not to hurt the meat.
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Keep, maintain my size of birds and if I can do that and get my feather quality, the where I would like to see it, it's close but it's not there yet.
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I, I think the borrowing can
00:12:50.912 --> 00:12:51.312
be tricky.
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Yeah.
00:12:52.542 --> 00:12:52.831
Yeah.
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I'd say that's a success.
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Yeah, but working on your body structure, your confirmation, right?
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Your station, all that, the width, those are harder to get than fixing the feathers.
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Oh, they are?
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Yeah.
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So you have to start with the foundational stuff, the production, the confirmation, the width.
00:13:14.701 --> 00:13:14.991
Okay.
00:13:15.361 --> 00:13:18.432
Those are by far more important for your journey, right?
00:13:18.432 --> 00:13:19.192
Where you're going.
00:13:19.371 --> 00:13:21.052
They're by far more important than.
00:13:21.951 --> 00:13:22.922
What the bird looks like.
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Okay.
00:13:23.442 --> 00:13:23.642
Yeah.
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And you'll get there.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I have to ask though, because of where you live, why didn't you consider something like a fau?
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Which is a winter layer.
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They actually, they're really backwards in that they like to lay with shorter daylight and through the winter.
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So the year after I started, you know why I didn't rip?
00:13:44.591 --> 00:13:45.392
'cause I didn't know better.
00:13:45.572 --> 00:13:46.991
Or r Jeff, I didn't know better.
00:13:47.272 --> 00:13:49.471
I didn't do the research ahead of time.
00:13:50.371 --> 00:13:52.792
And you are right there for my area.
00:13:53.251 --> 00:14:00.392
I'll admit there are far better selections, like the y and dot the Sean cla, which I do have on my second breed now.
00:14:00.451 --> 00:14:02.351
So I do have Partridge Sean Clare's.
00:14:03.251 --> 00:14:05.142
And yeah, they're winter layers as well.
00:14:05.522 --> 00:14:11.922
And Jeff, I just, it was putting the the cart for the horse type deal and Oh, it's all
00:14:11.922 --> 00:14:12.081
good.
00:14:12.282 --> 00:14:13.682
I was just curious why you didn't No.
00:14:13.741 --> 00:14:14.481
It feel different.
00:14:14.511 --> 00:14:14.802
Yeah.
00:14:15.662 --> 00:14:24.422
And now that I've had so much work into it, it would really be hard to change for me to change, but I don't think I ever will.
00:14:25.267 --> 00:14:27.726
But you are 100% right.
00:14:27.746 --> 00:14:28.807
And that was a big error.
00:14:29.027 --> 00:14:29.407
In my
00:14:29.407 --> 00:14:29.527
No.
00:14:29.527 --> 00:14:32.246
Don't, I'm not even considering changing what at this point.
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So you have a consistent egg supply.
00:14:34.167 --> 00:14:34.447
Yeah.
00:14:34.826 --> 00:14:35.726
Why not have
00:14:35.726 --> 00:14:38.947
something whether it's okay.
00:14:39.527 --> 00:14:42.996
Rocks cover you for eggs all through the spring, summer,
00:14:43.326 --> 00:14:43.616
yeah,
00:14:43.836 --> 00:14:44.667
we cover both
00:14:44.697 --> 00:14:45.427
seasons, right?
00:14:46.326 --> 00:14:46.616
Yeah.
00:14:46.797 --> 00:14:51.476
It the look of the bird got me, Jeff, and I thought, geez that's a pretty bird.
00:14:51.576 --> 00:14:52.706
And yeah, it's,
00:14:53.216 --> 00:14:54.797
The others would be no challenge, right?
00:14:55.456 --> 00:14:59.716
Oh, so you gotta have something that's challenging and keep it interesting.
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Yeah.
00:15:00.547 --> 00:15:00.836
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But I, yeah.
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Ted wants to know Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas.
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What would be a good dual purpose bird for that part of the world?
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It kind, that's almost like the central line of America.
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What do you guys think?
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Wouldn't the press be a good choice for that neck of the woods?
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Good genetic breasts will grow and produce anywhere.
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We would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Trail Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keepers 360 Live programming for Trail has been a trusted name and sustainable farming and poultry nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high quality natural product aligned perfectly with the values we hold there in our poultry community.
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Thank you Patrell for partnering with us to empower poultry keepers everywhere.
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We're truly grateful for your dedication and support.
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Yeah.
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When,
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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00:14:05.522 --> 00:14:11.922
00:14:11.922 --> 00:14:12.081
00:14:12.282 --> 00:14:13.682
00:14:13.741 --> 00:14:14.481
00:14:14.511 --> 00:14:14.802
00:14:15.662 --> 00:14:24.422
00:14:25.267 --> 00:14:27.726
00:14:27.746 --> 00:14:28.807
00:14:29.027 --> 00:14:29.407
00:14:29.407 --> 00:14:29.527
00:14:29.527 --> 00:14:32.246
00:14:32.427 --> 00:14:34.167
00:14:34.167 --> 00:14:34.447
00:14:34.826 --> 00:14:35.726
00:14:35.726 --> 00:14:38.947
something whether it's okay.
00:14:39.527 --> 00:14:42.996
Rocks cover you for eggs all through the spring, summer,
00:14:43.326 --> 00:14:43.616
00:14:43.836 --> 00:14:44.667
we cover both
00:14:44.697 --> 00:14:45.427
00:14:46.326 --> 00:14:46.616
00:14:46.797 --> 00:14:51.476
00:14:51.576 --> 00:14:52.706
00:14:53.216 --> 00:14:54.797
00:14:55.456 --> 00:14:59.716
00:14:59.746 --> 00:15:00.037
00:15:00.547 --> 00:15:00.836
Yeah.
00:15:01.226 --> 00:15:01.517
00:15:01.567 --> 00:15:02.626
00:15:03.106 --> 00:15:06.226
00:15:07.126 --> 00:15:10.697
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