Oct. 20, 2025

Poultry Health Master Class-Part 2

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of The Poultry Keepers Podcast, Jeff Mattocks and Carey Blackmon continue their Poultry Health Master Class with an in-depth look at real-world health issues every poultry keeper faces. Learn how to recognize early symptoms, identify management causes, and apply effective solutions for viral and bacterial conditions that can affect your flock.

Topics covered include:

Understanding and managing Mycoplasma-related respiratory disease
Recognizing Botulism and how Clostridium bacteria cause “limber-neck” in chickens
Identifying Gout in poultry and how protein and calcium imbalance trigger joint pain
The difference between Bumblefoot and Gout—and what causes each
Roundworms, tapeworms, and cecal worms: how they spread and how to prevent reinfection
Coccidiosis: how it develops, the role of soil management, and how balance builds natural immunity
Why overusing medications like Corid can actually harm gut health
Practical prevention through nutrition, sanitation, and observation

If you want to improve your flock’s long-term health and understand the “why” behind poultry problems, this session is for you.

Listen, learn, and take notes—because a healthy flock starts with informed management.

To listen now go to: www.thepoultrykeeperspordcast.com

#PoultryKeepersPodcast #PoultryHealthMasterClass #BackyardChickens #PoultryCare #PoultryHealth #ChickenDiseases #FlockManagement #HealthyFlocks #Mycoplasma #Botulism #Coccidiosis #ChickenWorms

You can email us at - poultrykeeperspodcast@gmail.com
Join our Facebook Groups:

Poultry Keepers Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/907679597724837
Poultry Keepers 360 - - https://www.facebook.com/groups/354973752688125
Poultry Breeders Nutrition - https://www.facebook.com/groups/4908798409211973

Check out the Poultry Kepers Podcast YouTube Channel -
https://www.youtube.com/@PoultryKeepersPodcast/featured

WEBVTT

00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.299
Welcome to another episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast.

00:00:03.490 --> 00:00:08.789
In this episode Jeff Mattocks and Carey Blackmon complete their Poultry Health Master Class.

00:00:09.259 --> 00:00:10.029
Now here's Carey.

00:00:20.768 --> 00:00:28.359
Say, you're gonna need a scapel, a microscope patients.

00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:30.428
Well, you really have to get it cultured, right?

00:00:30.609 --> 00:00:32.978
So you, you're pulling blood work.

00:00:33.158 --> 00:00:40.598
You're doing, you're doing cloacal swab, you're doing, uh, mouth swab, you know, mouth, tongue, throat swab.

00:00:40.959 --> 00:00:44.859
Uh, you may be doing a swab off the nostrils if there's discharge.

00:00:45.503 --> 00:00:50.213
You know, you're getting these to a lab for being cultured so they can pinpoint it, right?

00:00:51.113 --> 00:00:52.223
And so with,

00:00:52.223 --> 00:01:03.173
uh, if they're all mycoplasma related, the same thing will fix it regardless of which one it has, if it's even fixable,

00:01:04.073 --> 00:01:04.463
right?

00:01:04.793 --> 00:01:07.138
Most, most of those are not truly fixable.

00:01:07.823 --> 00:01:08.243
Okay.

00:01:08.364 --> 00:01:13.403
Because there's a limited amount of antivirals out there, right?

00:01:13.403 --> 00:01:15.384
I mean, there's some, there's some, right?

00:01:15.414 --> 00:01:17.993
And, and some of the herbs are excellent.

00:01:18.474 --> 00:01:31.043
And this is when I'm going for that combination of oregano tea tree, probably some cinnamon oil, you know, um, and I'm using it off label a little bit higher than you should.

00:01:31.944 --> 00:01:33.293
But a couple things have to happen.

00:01:33.293 --> 00:01:39.174
One, you had to have made the observation really, really early at the onset of that virus.

00:01:40.073 --> 00:01:40.433
Okay.

00:01:40.433 --> 00:01:46.493
And you started treatment then, um, you, you've got'em quarantined and separated.

00:01:47.153 --> 00:01:57.713
So when you start getting into the, you know, the CRDs, anything mycoplasm, family related, um, I, I honestly think it's time to get the hatchet out, right.

00:01:57.834 --> 00:01:59.063
I, I just.

00:01:59.963 --> 00:02:05.153
To me, it's not worth the gamble, um, of how far that's gonna spread in your flock.

00:02:05.754 --> 00:02:12.743
So you can try quarantining them and treating them, but I truly feel that they're gonna live with it.

00:02:13.493 --> 00:02:13.764
Right.

00:02:13.824 --> 00:02:15.443
That virus is gonna be in them.

00:02:15.443 --> 00:02:19.313
It may not be active, but under severe stress.

00:02:20.063 --> 00:02:20.304
Yeah.

00:02:20.304 --> 00:02:22.014
When they get stressed out, it'll pop out.

00:02:22.019 --> 00:02:23.003
Like a lot of stuff, it's gonna pop

00:02:23.003 --> 00:02:23.454
out again.

00:02:23.454 --> 00:02:26.993
'cause I've seen, you know, I've seen this with new castles a lot.

00:02:27.729 --> 00:02:31.538
You know, you think you got it under control, you treat it, it like crazy.

00:02:31.538 --> 00:02:42.368
The flock looks healthy, everybody's cruising right along, and you know, a rainstorm or something goes through and you know, you got another outbreak.

00:02:42.818 --> 00:02:43.058
Right.

00:02:43.058 --> 00:02:46.449
So Rob said he thinks Dena guard's still available.

00:02:46.899 --> 00:02:53.933
Um, I've seen something that was supposed to be, I, I wanna say like the generic version.

00:02:54.834 --> 00:02:56.813
Something like that on Amazon.

00:02:57.593 --> 00:02:59.364
I don't know if they're similar or not.

00:02:59.364 --> 00:03:08.243
I just know that the name is very similar and a lot of people say it, but yeah, you could mix that in water and see what happens.

00:03:09.024 --> 00:03:11.484
But like Jeff said, it's viral.

00:03:12.383 --> 00:03:14.604
I don't, I don't really know.

00:03:15.503 --> 00:03:18.084
If you don't get it fast, I don't know that anything will fix it.

00:03:18.984 --> 00:03:21.623
Uh, Jeff, what about botulism?

00:03:22.524 --> 00:03:27.894
How does botulism affect chickens and what clues you think you'll see in that?

00:03:28.163 --> 00:03:34.883
Uh, well, okay, so botulism comes from Clostridium bacteria.

00:03:35.574 --> 00:03:36.743
Okay.

00:03:36.743 --> 00:03:36.834
And.

00:03:37.734 --> 00:03:41.213
And it's funny because a guy called me this morning, right?

00:03:41.394 --> 00:03:44.304
Um, with the symptoms and mm-hmm.

00:03:45.054 --> 00:03:58.283
It's happened to me a couple times, but it's, um, we, you ever see the old guy at the back of the old guy in church who's falling asleep when the preacher's bringing the sermon, right?

00:03:58.283 --> 00:04:04.433
So the head slowly drifts forward, and then he catches himself and he slowly drifts forward.

00:04:05.334 --> 00:04:07.943
So some people refer to it as limber neck.

00:04:07.943 --> 00:04:09.924
Some people I've heard it called church neck.

00:04:10.764 --> 00:04:22.403
Um, but any animal, when it's reached its threshold of tolerance for the Clostridium bacteria or what it ferments into causing botulism, right?

00:04:22.584 --> 00:04:26.603
They lose control of head and neck muscles.

00:04:26.994 --> 00:04:31.494
So they're unable to lift their head to a normal height, right?

00:04:31.613 --> 00:04:32.184
And keep it there.

00:04:33.084 --> 00:04:33.384
Right.

00:04:33.533 --> 00:04:38.963
Um, and that is the 100% telltale symptom.

00:04:39.744 --> 00:04:45.533
Um, I love it when I get the call and people are describing to me what's going on, and I say, well, you got botulism.

00:04:45.954 --> 00:04:46.764
No, I don't.

00:04:46.884 --> 00:04:47.994
I said, okay, okay.

00:04:48.113 --> 00:04:50.874
You have the wrong person to talk to because you have bot.

00:04:51.774 --> 00:05:01.163
And you need somebody with P-H-D-D-V-M, blah, blah, blah at the end of their name to identify it for you for, you know,$150 later.

00:05:01.524 --> 00:05:06.894
But any animal that cannot hold its head up and it slowly loses control of it.

00:05:06.954 --> 00:05:08.634
It is 100%.

00:05:08.634 --> 00:05:08.968
Some form.

00:05:09.869 --> 00:05:13.613
Yeah, 100% guaranteed Botulism.

00:05:14.514 --> 00:05:26.934
Right now when I, when I visit chicken yards and I see those potholes, you know, they dig in them, they'll scratch down in there and they're eating at the bottom, you know, and those, you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about, right?

00:05:26.963 --> 00:05:27.983
Oh yeah.

00:05:27.983 --> 00:05:28.004
They dig.

00:05:28.004 --> 00:05:28.014
Yeah.

00:05:28.884 --> 00:05:29.043
They'll dig,

00:05:29.093 --> 00:05:30.803
they'll dig their own hole and get in it.

00:05:30.803 --> 00:05:31.913
Especially in the summertime.

00:05:32.634 --> 00:05:32.963
Yeah.

00:05:33.113 --> 00:05:41.874
But when they start eating, so when Clostridium ferments, it makes this, uh, almost like a sickening, sweet smell.

00:05:42.413 --> 00:05:42.774
Yeah.

00:05:42.848 --> 00:05:42.939
And

00:05:43.838 --> 00:05:46.478
it actually attracts'em to eat it, right?

00:05:46.538 --> 00:05:50.079
So it, it, they, they, they like the taste of it.

00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:57.939
And then early, early on, it's almost, it's, it almost feels like a euphoric type drug, right?

00:05:57.939 --> 00:06:02.048
So it kind of makes'em feel good, you know, when they eat a little bit of it.

00:06:02.259 --> 00:06:07.418
So they eat a little more, and then they keep coming back every day and they eat more, and they eat more, and they eat more.

00:06:07.899 --> 00:06:09.848
And eventually it builds up in their system.

00:06:10.494 --> 00:06:12.713
And it will eventually kill'em.

00:06:13.103 --> 00:06:15.444
And I have not found a really good treatment.

00:06:15.894 --> 00:06:24.983
Once it's in the bloodstream to the point it's there where you're seeing, you know, uh, the loss of head control, it's 50 50.

00:06:24.983 --> 00:06:37.423
If you can pull that, that bird or that animal out of that situation, so, so, uh, a clostridiums a hundred percent management, you know, it's, it's a hundred percent management issue.

00:06:37.783 --> 00:06:45.103
Whether you fed moldy feed, spilled feed on the ground, you know, things like that, um, they have to ingest it.

00:06:45.254 --> 00:06:45.553
Right?

00:06:45.613 --> 00:06:47.533
It's not spread from bird to bird.

00:06:48.434 --> 00:06:51.434
Uh, it's not contagious, right.

00:06:51.973 --> 00:06:53.983
It's something that they've ingested.

00:06:54.793 --> 00:06:55.184
Got it.

00:06:55.723 --> 00:06:55.963
Yeah.

00:06:56.684 --> 00:06:57.553
Alright, cool.

00:06:57.733 --> 00:06:58.454
Hold that thought.

00:06:58.454 --> 00:07:06.824
We would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Fertrell Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keepers 360 Live programming.

00:07:07.723 --> 00:07:20.173
Fertrell has been a trusted name and sustainable farming and poultry nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high quality natural product aligned perfectly with the values we hold there in our poultry community.

00:07:20.863 --> 00:07:25.093
Thank you Patrell for partnering with us to empower poultry keepers everywhere.

00:07:25.499 --> 00:07:28.228
We're truly grateful for your dedication and support.

00:07:29.129 --> 00:07:31.709
All right, so let's see.

00:07:31.709 --> 00:07:34.738
What, what is gout in poultry?

00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:39.749
Gout is very similar to what happens in a human.

00:07:39.838 --> 00:07:46.139
Um, most times it's from overfeeding protein, and you'll get a uric acid buildup.

00:07:46.814 --> 00:07:57.194
Um, we tend to see it because one of the largest Molt, more active joints is the hawk joint, where you go from feather to scale in the, in the leg,

00:07:57.793 --> 00:07:58.184
right?

00:07:58.244 --> 00:07:59.264
We'll tend to see it there.

00:07:59.264 --> 00:08:02.624
We can see the crystal formations in the foot.

00:08:03.314 --> 00:08:09.434
Um, so, you know, uh, I don't know how many people realize that.

00:08:09.434 --> 00:08:11.024
Sue probably knows it, but.

00:08:11.923 --> 00:08:21.343
In the human body, when a toxin or an overload of something is detected, the body tends to push it to an extremity, right?

00:08:21.463 --> 00:08:25.303
So it'll go out to fingertips, it'll go out to toes, it'll go to feet.

00:08:25.334 --> 00:08:30.374
It's going as far away from, uh, major organs as possible.

00:08:30.528 --> 00:08:30.949
Mm-hmm.

00:08:31.033 --> 00:08:34.033
To reduce the, you know, the, the effects.

00:08:34.634 --> 00:08:34.933
Right.

00:08:35.024 --> 00:08:38.264
So, and this is what happens with uric acid in humans.

00:08:38.953 --> 00:08:44.234
Same thing's happening in chickens and it ends up building up in the hawk joint or the foot joints.

00:08:44.864 --> 00:08:45.134
Okay.

00:08:45.374 --> 00:08:49.448
Um, the easiest, the bird will start walking Funny.

00:08:50.349 --> 00:08:57.038
Um, are walking, you know, very oddly, um, some people refer to it as high stepping.

00:08:57.038 --> 00:09:09.818
So when you see a chicken that takes this, like over-exaggerated step, like they're bringing, they're keeping their leg almost straight and taking a really high step and like they're trying to prance

00:09:09.818 --> 00:09:10.749
around or something.

00:09:11.048 --> 00:09:11.469
Yeah.

00:09:11.859 --> 00:09:16.568
Um, that's the easiest way to detect it or see it.

00:09:17.063 --> 00:09:18.653
Uh, it's not the only way.

00:09:19.494 --> 00:09:34.433
So in our standard file, you know, um, here, um, I also worry about seeing them sitting all the way back when they, when they go to the sitting position to be sitting all the way back, sitting on their butt, right?

00:09:34.494 --> 00:09:38.663
Literally sitting on their butt instead of having their legs folded under them.

00:09:39.563 --> 00:09:45.658
So if they're not using or bending that hawk joint, um, you know, the way they should.

00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:48.369
To take normal posture position.

00:09:48.788 --> 00:09:57.548
Again, this is why pictures of posturing is really, really important for helping people diagnose what's going on.

00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:09.214
But yeah, so if they're sitting with their legs out in front of them, right, they're sitting back on their butt and they got their legs a little bit too far out in front of them, out from under the body.

00:10:09.969 --> 00:10:10.413
Need you to

00:10:10.583 --> 00:10:11.078
Can't see it.

00:10:11.288 --> 00:10:12.668
Yeah, you can see it that way.

00:10:13.418 --> 00:10:15.339
You're not really gonna see it in the joint.

00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:18.219
It's just, it's getting hot, it's getting sore.

00:10:18.219 --> 00:10:20.979
The bird's gonna be less mobile.

00:10:21.609 --> 00:10:21.849
Right.

00:10:21.908 --> 00:10:23.678
They're not gonna move around.

00:10:24.158 --> 00:10:27.038
They're not gonna want to move around as much as the other birds.

00:10:27.219 --> 00:10:27.428
Right?

00:10:27.428 --> 00:10:33.158
So you're gonna see less mobility, um, and they're not gonna walk.

00:10:33.188 --> 00:10:37.778
They're not gonna have the same walk and gate as if the other chickens do, but.

00:10:38.499 --> 00:10:39.849
Most often.

00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:42.999
So the, the number one cause is the overfeeding of protein.

00:10:43.899 --> 00:10:49.778
You know, and I've beat that to death, you know, since we've had this show on, you know, you don't need to overfeed protein, right?

00:10:49.928 --> 00:10:51.788
You need to get your amino acids right.

00:10:51.908 --> 00:10:55.448
Don't overfeed protein feeding more protein is not the answer.

00:10:55.928 --> 00:10:56.229
Okay?

00:10:56.438 --> 00:10:58.328
Get the right feet, balance it out.

00:10:58.958 --> 00:11:00.489
So anyway, um.

00:11:01.389 --> 00:11:15.849
Now in, in roosters or male birds that are, have been overfed calcium for too long a time, you can also see very similar signs of gout.

00:11:16.269 --> 00:11:18.609
Um, it takes a lot longer.

00:11:18.788 --> 00:11:20.019
It's not as noticeable.

00:11:20.918 --> 00:11:28.149
But you know that you'll end up getting some calcium buildup in some of those joints causing pain, you know, like arthritic type pain.

00:11:28.778 --> 00:11:29.288
Yeah.

00:11:29.288 --> 00:11:33.729
Um, and then they won't be as functional or as mobile as you want'em to be.

00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:38.374
So again, it's kind of a management thing.

00:11:39.274 --> 00:11:43.083
Yeah, it's a dietary, it, it, it's a dietary imbalance.

00:11:43.083 --> 00:11:44.644
It's a hundred percent management.

00:11:44.644 --> 00:11:47.673
It's not, gout is nothing contagious.

00:11:47.673 --> 00:11:52.083
It's not spreadable, it's not gonna go bird to bird, nothing like that.

00:11:52.323 --> 00:11:52.653
So

00:11:53.134 --> 00:11:58.114
now sometimes the bumblefoot could be a staph infection too, right?

00:11:58.714 --> 00:12:01.323
Uh, you, you said something completely different.

00:12:01.323 --> 00:12:03.274
Gout and bumblefoot are not associated.

00:12:03.573 --> 00:12:04.744
So bumblefoot.

00:12:05.644 --> 00:12:16.864
Is 100% caused by, uh, an exterior puncture, you know, like a splinter or something, right?

00:12:17.073 --> 00:12:22.653
That, and I find it more in wetter conditions where the beddings been allowed to go too wet.

00:12:22.864 --> 00:12:24.423
The bird's been on it too long.

00:12:24.484 --> 00:12:30.099
The footpad gets, uh, the footpad gets extremely soft and pliable.

00:12:30.999 --> 00:12:48.594
And then it, it allows, you know, whether people using wood chips, uh, large shavings, some sort of environmental thing, that there's a small puncture in the bottom of that foot pad that allows that staff bacteria in okay.

00:12:48.953 --> 00:12:51.083
And starts to grow in that foot.

00:12:51.894 --> 00:12:53.394
It doesn't come from the inside.

00:12:53.543 --> 00:12:53.783
Right.

00:12:53.964 --> 00:13:03.384
It so there's a lot of people who think that, you know, it's, they, they were fed wrong or whatever that, you know, Bumble foot's gonna start from the inside of the bird.

00:13:03.384 --> 00:13:03.714
No.

00:13:03.744 --> 00:13:10.464
It, it has to enter in through the skin and then load up in that point to be a true bumblefoot.

00:13:11.303 --> 00:13:11.754
Gotcha.

00:13:12.354 --> 00:13:12.624
Right.

00:13:13.524 --> 00:13:14.214
Um.

00:13:15.114 --> 00:13:21.203
What about roundworms, sequel worms, gait worms, those kind of things?

00:13:22.104 --> 00:13:26.183
Uh, you know, the, the eggs and the larva have to be ingested, right?

00:13:26.423 --> 00:13:33.609
Again, they're not gonna be spread from bird to bird through contact, through shared feeders, through shared wattles, nothing like that.

00:13:34.509 --> 00:13:45.489
Um, you know, it's gonna be a buildup of the egg and the larvae in the bedding or in the ground, the soil that the birds are on, things like that.

00:13:45.698 --> 00:13:58.538
So, um, you know, they can get tape worms, they can get roundworms, they can get, you know, there's, there's a handful of different kind of internal parasites that birds can contract.

00:13:59.438 --> 00:14:04.058
And you know, this is why you and I discourage people from feeding on the ground.

00:14:04.328 --> 00:14:04.629
Okay.

00:14:04.869 --> 00:14:06.938
It's just you just don't do that.

00:14:07.119 --> 00:14:07.509
Okay?

00:14:07.839 --> 00:14:09.009
And, and people say, what?

00:14:09.068 --> 00:14:10.958
My chickens eat off the ground all the time.

00:14:11.469 --> 00:14:12.969
Well, do they really?

00:14:13.479 --> 00:14:15.068
Let's pay a little bit more attention.

00:14:15.129 --> 00:14:18.879
So they're gonna go scratch some dirt, or they're gonna go scratch something.

00:14:19.568 --> 00:14:23.168
And what they're really looking for is they're waiting for something to move.

00:14:23.168 --> 00:14:24.698
They're looking for an insect,

00:14:25.119 --> 00:14:25.328
right?

00:14:25.389 --> 00:14:25.509
Yep.

00:14:25.749 --> 00:14:28.089
Looking for something to pop out and take off running right?

00:14:28.644 --> 00:14:37.673
Yeah, that's what they're, and sometimes they'll actually go down if they think they see something and they'll use their beak to like stir through the dirt that spot, right?

00:14:37.673 --> 00:14:37.974
Yeah.

00:14:38.543 --> 00:14:38.874
Right.

00:14:38.874 --> 00:14:42.443
But they're not, so people think that they're eating something right.

00:14:42.683 --> 00:14:48.533
And they, they just don't spend enough time with their birds to, to know what the bird's actually doing.

00:14:49.433 --> 00:14:49.734
You know?

00:14:49.793 --> 00:14:50.724
They're, they're just,

00:14:51.624 --> 00:14:56.604
I had one person to me say, well, birds at free range, they eat off the dirt.

00:14:56.994 --> 00:14:57.474
I'm like.

00:14:58.014 --> 00:15:05.634
Yeah, kind of probably more accurately they eat off the grass, but

00:15:05.874 --> 00:15:06.683
I mean, they're eating.

00:15:06.683 --> 00:15:06.803
They're

00:15:06.803 --> 00:15:14.274
also not, they don't poop where they're free ranging except for behind them.

00:15:15.173 --> 00:15:15.474
You know?

00:15:15.474 --> 00:15:22.344
When you have'em in a pen and they poop all over the place, you're throwing it in their poop.

00:15:23.244 --> 00:15:23.484
Right.

00:15:23.933 --> 00:15:24.053
Uh,

00:15:24.264 --> 00:15:33.264
you know, so the bird's instinct is to go out, scratch, you know, kick around some dirt, take a step back and look for something scavengers.

00:15:33.323 --> 00:15:33.594
Right?

00:15:33.653 --> 00:15:34.524
That's what they're doing.

00:15:35.183 --> 00:15:35.423
Yeah.

00:15:35.484 --> 00:15:40.403
So when you see'em, you know, again, even a free-ranging bird, the majority of the time.

00:15:41.303 --> 00:15:44.874
They're, they're eating like a full seed, right?

00:15:45.083 --> 00:15:45.504
That mm-hmm.

00:15:45.744 --> 00:15:47.094
Just fell off of something.

00:15:47.183 --> 00:15:48.864
Rarely are they eating a seed.

00:15:49.224 --> 00:15:51.144
They're really looking for the insects.

00:15:51.624 --> 00:15:51.864
Okay?

00:15:51.869 --> 00:15:51.979
Yep.

00:15:52.043 --> 00:16:00.024
They're looking for the ant, they're looking for the spider, they're looking for the small lizard, you know, salamander, whatever.

00:16:00.653 --> 00:16:02.844
Um, that's what they're after, right?

00:16:03.144 --> 00:16:10.014
And, and they, believe it or not, they find a lot, there's a huge amount of insects per square foot.

00:16:10.553 --> 00:16:15.563
A good range area that you can get a lot of really good protein from.

00:16:15.563 --> 00:16:18.533
Free ranging if that's, you know, if you can do that.

00:16:18.774 --> 00:16:18.984
Right.

00:16:19.254 --> 00:16:19.524
So

00:16:20.423 --> 00:16:26.874
I was gonna say there, there's a lot less of a population in my backyard than what there used to be.

00:16:27.609 --> 00:16:33.474
'cause since I enclosed the whole thing and built some rather large grow out pens.

00:16:34.374 --> 00:16:42.899
I, I throw chickens, you know, I put some pulls in one of'em and with some turkeys and, you know, they're just like, Ooh.

00:16:43.798 --> 00:16:45.239
And they just started going to town.

00:16:45.239 --> 00:16:47.489
They hunting and pecking all across it.

00:16:47.489 --> 00:16:53.009
Finding stuff, you know, you, you have chickens in your yard and you won't have ticks.

00:16:53.249 --> 00:16:55.229
Crickets, frogs.

00:16:56.129 --> 00:16:56.999
None of that stuff.

00:16:57.359 --> 00:17:13.048
Yeah, I mean, I told the story on here once before, but we had a snapping curl that would come across the road from the pond, layer layer eggs, and one, you know, when they hatched one early summer and or mid summer.

00:17:13.933 --> 00:17:18.913
Uh, we actually had two or three of our chickens running around with baby snapping turtles.

00:17:18.913 --> 00:17:22.213
They're holding onto running around like they found the best thing ever.

00:17:22.213 --> 00:17:22.544
Right.

00:17:23.443 --> 00:17:29.773
You know, these little, you know, inch, inch and a half long baby snapping turtles were headed back to the pond.

00:17:30.044 --> 00:17:30.314
Right.

00:17:30.314 --> 00:17:30.614
And

00:17:31.394 --> 00:17:34.183
I mean, was it, was there a shell hard at that point?

00:17:34.243 --> 00:17:35.203
No, it's not.

00:17:35.473 --> 00:17:35.773
Right.

00:17:36.058 --> 00:17:37.209
So I.

00:17:38.108 --> 00:17:39.969
Chicken pecking on some wood or something.

00:17:39.999 --> 00:17:41.409
My wife was freaking out.

00:17:41.409 --> 00:17:42.338
What am I supposed to do?

00:17:42.338 --> 00:17:43.298
I'm like, do nothing.

00:17:43.304 --> 00:17:44.919
They're, they're doing what they're supposed to do.

00:17:44.919 --> 00:17:45.489
Leave'em alone.

00:17:46.058 --> 00:17:46.298
Right.

00:17:46.659 --> 00:17:46.989
And

00:17:47.439 --> 00:17:51.638
chickens are chickening and if they got caught, the totals ain't totalling.

00:17:52.538 --> 00:18:04.479
You know, the two and a half years that I had guineas here, uh, on the property we pick zero ticks off of any of the pets I Bett or family bet they are the best tick eaters.

00:18:05.378 --> 00:18:06.743
But my neighbors were not there.

00:18:06.743 --> 00:18:07.358
They're just also the

00:18:07.358 --> 00:18:08.679
most annoying.

00:18:08.679 --> 00:18:09.459
Noisy, yeah.

00:18:09.578 --> 00:18:12.038
My neighbors weren't real happy about me having Guineas.

00:18:12.219 --> 00:18:12.459
Right.

00:18:12.999 --> 00:18:14.288
So I can see

00:18:14.288 --> 00:18:14.618
that.

00:18:15.219 --> 00:18:15.489
But

00:18:16.269 --> 00:18:17.229
they're hilarious.

00:18:17.558 --> 00:18:18.489
They're just hilarious.

00:18:19.328 --> 00:18:19.509
Right.

00:18:20.108 --> 00:18:23.104
So what is Cox Acidosis?

00:18:24.003 --> 00:18:30.189
Co acidosis is a, like a really small parasite down at the protozoa level.

00:18:30.398 --> 00:18:37.689
Um, you know, and the bird, again, has to ingest it outta the ground or somebody else's poop, right?

00:18:37.749 --> 00:18:49.598
They're picking up theosis and it builds an infection along the intestinal wall, you know, where it starts burrowing in and colonizing.

00:18:50.348 --> 00:18:50.798
Um.

00:18:51.699 --> 00:19:02.979
But you, you don't treat it with a parasite, you don't treat it with, um, like a wormer, it doesn't respond to that, uh, just because of how it lives and thrives.

00:19:03.368 --> 00:19:08.138
And the, the size and shape of the body is extremely small.

00:19:08.588 --> 00:19:16.538
I mean, it's, they're, you're not gonna see'em with the naked eye, whereas at all other internal parasites, you can pretty much see when they're mature.

00:19:17.259 --> 00:19:24.189
You can see them with the naked eye without a microscope, but you're not gonna do that with, uh, with a co acidosis.

00:19:24.249 --> 00:19:28.538
But you know what, co acidosis is everywhere in our environment.

00:19:29.439 --> 00:19:36.878
It's been a long time since I looked up the stat, but they know that a co acidosis cyst in some.

00:19:37.778 --> 00:19:40.929
Soil types, as long as there's moisture, it's not bone dry.

00:19:41.169 --> 00:19:41.499
Right.

00:19:42.219 --> 00:19:46.929
Are viable for up to 10 years without a host.

00:19:47.828 --> 00:19:48.098
Okay.

00:19:48.249 --> 00:19:51.128
Just, just laying there in the ground, waiting for their turn.

00:19:52.028 --> 00:19:54.519
So, but the bird, if you got it, but the bird has to eat it.

00:19:54.699 --> 00:19:54.999
Right.

00:19:55.209 --> 00:19:55.598
And

00:19:55.598 --> 00:19:56.874
again, if you got contagious, got

00:19:56.874 --> 00:19:59.019
in dirt, is there a way to get rid of it?

00:19:59.648 --> 00:20:00.878
It's in all dirt.

00:20:01.568 --> 00:20:02.919
I mean, unless, well, okay, so let

00:20:02.919 --> 00:20:03.608
me rephrase it.

00:20:03.608 --> 00:20:05.679
If you have toxic levels.

00:20:06.578 --> 00:20:07.179
In your dirt.

00:20:08.078 --> 00:20:09.848
Is there anything you can do?

00:20:10.479 --> 00:20:17.469
Well, remember I said if it has enough moisture, so every time you disturb that soil, dry it out.

00:20:18.189 --> 00:20:25.449
This is where, you know, when I was encouraging people to use something, you know, like a lime on their soil on a regular basis, right?

00:20:26.048 --> 00:20:27.308
Lime is a desiccant.

00:20:27.368 --> 00:20:28.838
It's gonna suck moisture.

00:20:29.739 --> 00:20:36.009
Um, and also those o sister are not gonna be happy if the pH changes really quickly, right?

00:20:36.038 --> 00:20:42.489
So if your soil after your chickens is, you know, six, somewhere around six pH, more than likely.

00:20:42.999 --> 00:20:43.088
Mm-hmm.

00:20:43.328 --> 00:20:43.449
Right?

00:20:43.509 --> 00:20:52.788
And then all of a sudden you change it to an eight or nine, you know, with a dose of Lyme, even for that seven day period after you treated it.

00:20:53.689 --> 00:20:57.378
That's enough to just totally rock that o assist world, right?

00:20:57.469 --> 00:20:59.959
So, and steal moisture from it.

00:21:00.378 --> 00:21:08.479
So while lime is not considered a sanitizer and has some excellent sanitation qualities to it, right?

00:21:08.719 --> 00:21:13.788
But other than that, you're not gonna get rid of cods Soys, right?

00:21:13.848 --> 00:21:16.489
They're, they're there, they're gonna be there.

00:21:17.269 --> 00:21:18.499
You can do whatever you want.

00:21:18.558 --> 00:21:26.088
I mean, you can scrape off the top three inches of your soil on your property, give it to somebody else, bring in brand new, and it's already there.

00:21:26.778 --> 00:21:27.078
Okay.

00:21:27.078 --> 00:21:32.148
That's what I'm saying is if it's not there, it's gonna be there in really short order.

00:21:32.148 --> 00:21:36.558
It's part of that soil ecosystem.

00:21:37.068 --> 00:21:37.189
Mm-hmm.

00:21:37.429 --> 00:21:38.628
It is supposed to be there.

00:21:38.749 --> 00:21:39.108
Okay.

00:21:39.169 --> 00:21:43.368
It's, it's just part of the balance and, and truthfully.

00:21:44.269 --> 00:21:46.519
Uh, this, don't, don't, don't get scared.

00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:47.358
Don't fall off.

00:21:47.358 --> 00:21:59.689
But if you actually did a stool sample, sent it off, you would probably find some cyst or coccidia in your stool sample at some levels, right?

00:21:59.868 --> 00:22:01.189
It's part, oh, perfectly

00:22:01.189 --> 00:22:01.818
healthy birds.

00:22:02.719 --> 00:22:03.209
Exactly.

00:22:04.108 --> 00:22:06.594
It, it is part of the biome.

00:22:07.044 --> 00:22:11.003
So zero coccidia or oys is not good.

00:22:11.574 --> 00:22:11.874
Right.

00:22:12.144 --> 00:22:14.784
And, but then too many is not good.

00:22:14.903 --> 00:22:18.624
So it's just keeping everything where it's supposed to be.

00:22:18.713 --> 00:22:18.953
Right.

00:22:19.013 --> 00:22:22.913
You keep, you keep the community harmonized.

00:22:23.273 --> 00:22:23.634
Okay.

00:22:23.769 --> 00:22:25.584
And, and everybody works together.

00:22:26.483 --> 00:22:31.493
I mean, that's, that's kind of the benefit to using all that stuff together.

00:22:32.394 --> 00:22:37.044
And the, and again, you know, we keep harping on the management side of it.

00:22:37.943 --> 00:22:48.413
That's part of that management is keeping all the stuff, the nutrition, the health, the soil, the water quality, keeping all of that in check.

00:22:49.163 --> 00:22:51.534
So it does all balance.

00:22:52.433 --> 00:22:55.134
And if it's all balanced, then great.

00:22:55.433 --> 00:23:04.784
But if you, like he was talking about earlier, if you send some a stool sample off and it has zero levels, okay.

00:23:05.683 --> 00:23:14.743
You probably gave that bird some kind of something recently, and if it has nothing, it also has no immunity.

00:23:15.644 --> 00:23:25.459
So I would think that if it's level was right at zero or zero, if you had an outbreak, that would probably be the bird that died.

00:23:26.358 --> 00:23:26.628
Right?

00:23:26.929 --> 00:23:29.209
But see, when you take out all the cods.

00:23:30.108 --> 00:23:42.588
You know, I am convinced that there's a large percentage of poultry keepers, like after seeing backyard, backyard chickens in different groups that I was on only for less than a week because I couldn't take it.

00:23:43.159 --> 00:23:43.459
Right.

00:23:43.489 --> 00:23:46.848
I'm convinced that Corid is part of their liquor cabinet.

00:23:46.878 --> 00:23:47.118
Right?

00:23:47.118 --> 00:23:50.479
They've got it right there beside their vodka and everything else, right?

00:23:50.479 --> 00:23:50.778
Yeah.

00:23:50.868 --> 00:23:52.308
They, they never run out.

00:23:52.338 --> 00:23:54.378
They've always got a bottle, right?

00:23:54.564 --> 00:23:56.449
They, they always have a bottle, right?

00:23:56.479 --> 00:23:57.199
So it's.

00:23:58.098 --> 00:24:20.509
Um, you know, so, you know, when you go to zero on something like that, you're opening up space in that digestive tract for something else or something else, you know, like the larger parasites or, you know, a a, a Clostridium bacteria or a salmonella bacteria or a, you know, whatever, right.

00:24:21.064 --> 00:24:26.673
They all have to be in there at the right levels and they keep each other in checks and balances.

00:24:26.673 --> 00:24:27.003
Right.

00:24:27.064 --> 00:24:33.753
So just, it's just part of the natural ecology, digest, subtract.

00:24:33.753 --> 00:24:33.933
It's like

00:24:34.068 --> 00:24:36.334
the, the pecking order of the gut.

00:24:36.903 --> 00:24:37.233
Mm-hmm.

00:24:38.134 --> 00:24:47.854
Well, Rob said that he's had people say that they had a vet do a float test and there was zero coccidia parasites, and he tells'em they had a bad test.

00:24:48.753 --> 00:24:49.624
Which that's,

00:24:49.773 --> 00:24:50.134
yeah.

00:24:51.034 --> 00:24:56.493
I mean, either somebody's lying, the test was bad, or they just gave the bird a bunch of antibiotics before it went.

00:24:57.334 --> 00:24:57.693
Yeah.

00:24:57.693 --> 00:25:03.483
I mean, on a float test, I'm, I'm hoping So you're, you're actually looking for the O assist, which is the egg, right?

00:25:03.993 --> 00:25:09.933
Nothmm, not the, um, the coccidia, but you know, I'm hoping between 30 and 40.

00:25:10.834 --> 00:25:11.523
Program.

00:25:11.794 --> 00:25:12.064
Right.

00:25:12.094 --> 00:25:15.453
So it, it's always done on a pergram basis, right?

00:25:15.453 --> 00:25:25.624
They take one gram of, of manure or poultry poop, and that's what they, you know, that's what they float out in the saline solution, right?

00:25:25.683 --> 00:25:33.064
And they do that and then they pull their sample off the top of the little eyedropper type, you know, sample thing and put it on a slide.

00:25:33.753 --> 00:25:33.844
Mm-hmm.

00:25:34.233 --> 00:25:36.064
And then they do the math.

00:25:36.094 --> 00:25:36.933
So it's, um.

00:25:37.834 --> 00:25:41.763
You know, like 30, 30 to 40 is fine.

00:25:42.663 --> 00:25:44.673
50, I'm not scared yet.

00:25:44.824 --> 00:25:50.523
You know, we make a couple of Minorca adjustments, 60, we can still make some Minorca adjustments, get things back in shape.

00:25:51.153 --> 00:26:04.713
Once you start getting up, you know, 80 to a hundred, then I think we have to do something a little bit more managerially, uh, harsh, but still don't really need to use.

00:26:05.614 --> 00:26:06.423
Or apro.

00:26:06.483 --> 00:26:08.943