Winter Flock Reset: Fix What Isn’t Working - Audio Edition

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Well, hello there. We're glad that you could join us this evening. You know, the winter's almost here. It's coming on. Um, and that's a time when for us book to get these things kind of slow down a little bit. We get an opportunity to kind of evaluate our year and reflect on what we did that worked and what we did that didn't work. Uh, and so in this episode, we thought it would be a good time to discuss how to use winter as a practical reset for your poker keeping work. We'll look at daily routines, we'll look at housing, feeding, record keeping, we'll get up all of it. Um, you know, we somebody asked me one time is that kind of hard to do that. I said, well, no, because you already know what's working and what's not, and it doesn't require a lot of thought to go into that to point that out to you. So remember, the goal is not to change everything, it is to identify what's keeping your clock, what's making your culture keeping harder, than it really needs to be. I mean, who doesn't like what's working? So why don't we get started? Jeff, Terry, and Sue are with me, and we're gonna have a good show tonight. Jeff, sir. One of the questions that I like to ask folks is what is particularly well, what went particularly well uh in your poultry operation during the past year. But specifically, what do you think are some of the things they should look at?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I mean, you if you so we're doing a reset, we're reviewing the year, the whole year, right? As breeders, I it's my opinion that you have to evaluate your entire year based on the quality of the progeny, right? Your your your scorecard or your report card or your whatever boils down to what is the next year's offspring look like? Are they better than the last? Right, and and that's just in my opinion, yeah. Will you change?

SPEAKER_04 2:26

No, I agree, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I mean that that's the ultimate, right? That's like trying to get an A plus in English for me, which was never possible, never happened, but okay. Yeah, you know, I mean, people are often switching things, and you know, like they try a new feed, they try this, they try that. I'm not a big fan of flopping around and trying too much at one time, right? Too many changes. Here's the thing most changes that you make take almost a year to see the real if it right to see what that progeny's gonna be the following year.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

So, you know, I'm the feed guy, right? So if you know, for me, yeah, just get on a good feed, stay on a good feed. I also see people that will feed breeding feed or like a really high-end feed, only during breeding season, then they put them back on some, you know, $15 a bag floor sweeping. That drives me nuts. Yeah, but anyway, uh sorry, had a rant there for a second.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

That's all right. But now I know what you mean because I mean we all see it on the roof because people are well, what about this fee? What about that fee? Well, I tried this for a little while, and I switched over to that for a little while. Kind of makes me touch off. Yeah, um, what's something or some things uh that have caused more work and frustration for you than it really should have.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

All right. So I know this is gonna shock both you and Jeff for me to say this, but not listening and following instructions from people with more experience. Now, Sue is like my other mom, so she's over here laughing because she she's heard both sides of the frustration, like like my side, and you know, I'm sure that y'all have vented your side to her and conversations between just y'all. But you know, when you ask somebody a question, you ask them for a reason, not because you wanted a dumb answer, but because you thought that their answer was more educated or better than one that you had already. So I want to encourage people to listen to the the response when they asked a question and either follow it or something, don't argue with them because personally I feel like if you ask somebody a question, that means that you wanted their knowledge because you value their knowledge, and if that's the case, why are you arguing with them after you ask the question?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

You know, one thing I have to say to remind folks is be mindful about who you're asking for advice.

SPEAKER_05 6:09

That was that was my next thing. Sorry about that. Go ahead. I was gonna say be mindful of the reputation of people when you ask them questions because there's a lot of chicken experts out there that have five or six mixed chickens running around loose in their yard in various types of condition, but on social media they make themselves out to be an expert, and they've got like 20,000 followers and they admin a group with 50,000 people in it, but they have no anything on chickens, they just got chickens last year so they could post some pictures, and it's all about social media, you know. To be honest, I just got out of Facebook jail because somebody didn't like something I said, and also because I think some of my local competitors have been frivolously reporting things that I post on social media, and I can prove some of it, and I do plan to go talk to them face to face, but that ain't for this show. But in my time where I wasn't on social media, I found myself with a lot less of that drama that you see on social media and a lot more time to actually spend researching and looking at credible science university-based studies that really contradict a lot of things that these experts claim. I've got some articles that I'll be posting over the next month or two that talk about some topics that are hot topics, and I list in there the university studies where I got it. Some of the stuff came from Research Gate, which is something I have access to because of a job that I do on a contract basis. And you know, I was able to just I'll be sharing the PDFs with those once I get permission from the publisher. But yeah, there's there's a lot of misinformation out there, and a lot of it's found in really large backyard chicken groups.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Well, yeah, and even some of the written information you find online has been packaged in such a way that you would think, God, somebody who really knew what they were doing looked at.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

Yeah, there's a lot of products out there. There's a lot of products out there that are that way. Oh, yeah. And one thing that I'd like to tell people is when you when you're looking at a new hip product that has really flashy packaging and their the price seems a bit high, but their marketing seems really good. Check it out. Because, you know, if I sell this particular marker right here, if I'm if I'm selling these for to use on a dry erase board, then I'm gonna make it look like it's the best thing out there, and you need to spend ten dollars for this marker instead of two dollars for another one. So be mindful of that too when you're shopping for some miracle cure to something your chicken doesn't even have, right? Because you you saw a picture that Susie in a backyard group said that you know she knows for sure that's what's wrong with your chicken, but she don't have any anyway. So how does she know?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

You know, and and I'm gonna throw this out there for a quick too. If it sounds too good to be true, it's a really good chance it probably is.

SPEAKER_05 10:29

Yes. Yep. Definitely, yeah, you know, and when in doubt, take a picture of the poop or the way the bird died and send it to Jeff. Yeah. Because he's got like this whole Rolodex back here in his brain, where you know, if if your bird died and you're curious as to why, if you don't touch it, just take a picture of it and send it to him, he'll say, Oh, well, that was more than likely this, this, or this. What did the poop look like? And if you have a picture of that too, Dr. Jeff has it nailed. So I'm writing that real quick.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

But people can't help but move something before they take that picture. Like if it died under a bush, yeah, I need to know that it died under the bush.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

And what kind of bush?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Don't touch, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

Don't because it could be something that's poisonous to them.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

You know, people don't actually realize that chickens really won't eat things that are poisonous to them. Right, they'll take one or two pets and they quit, right?

SPEAKER_05 11:37

Because it's they don't realize they're actually smart. They do a lot of they're they're like kids, they do a lot of dumb stuff, but they're really smart.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

We should quit ranting about all the all the Facebook forums that mislead people. We're going way off script here. Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

I uh I'm gonna add my two cents in or two. So the other thing for people that are raising chickens, be humble. When you go ask questions, admit to yourself that you don't know. I am very much a noob in this area of poultry. I've only been raising birds 10 years. I have mountains of stuff to learn, and when people ask me questions, I don't know, I point them to Carrie or Jeff or Rip. You know, I don't stand there and pretend like I have all the answers because I don't. I'm learning just like everybody else. So be humble, you know. Be humble.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

People don't ask me questions anymore, Jake. They just go they go right to the soft cell, they'll go to Rip or Carrie or somebody else. They don't like the cold hard truth, right? They don't like my bluntness. Yeah, even Kerry quit asking me questions. He doesn't like to answer.

SPEAKER_05 13:08

Well, maybe that's a testament to me actually listening over the years. Oh, yeah, and the amount of questions have gotten fewer. You got tired of me saying, Don't be stupid. Don't do that. Now I need to hear that sometimes though. If I'm doing stupid stuff, I need to do it.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Well, now before we shift to another topic here, I just want to remind the folks as you're doing your winter evaluation, winter reset, so to speak, think about which daily chores consume more time than the value it produced. Yes, definitely. And that's man, that's easy to get into spin spinning wheels, but don't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

So for me, I like to take like and I did this the other day, I gather my records because I have a couple different notebooks in a couple different key places, and I'll keep them there so I can write stuff down because I will I I have documented short-term memory loss. I'll forget stuff. And I get those together and I start reviewing them because in the evenings when it's still light enough you can see, but not 115 degrees outside, I can spend some time watching my birds while the days are still long, and I make more notes because right now, even though you know, for most people, hatching season is not till next year, right now I'm already thinking about my pairs and who I'm putting together. So I'm gonna use those notes, and I'm also thinking about the logistics behind the pens, what's automated, what is an environment that it provides no stress. Do I have varmits or rats in one area that can stress out these birds that refuse to lay when they're stressed? So maybe I should put this other set of birds that can lay in any situation there, and and I'm thinking about that kind of stuff, and I'm starting to cull more, get down to my final, you know. I like to have a king of air and a spare, I like to have spare pullets, ones that maybe shouldn't be bred, but I'm gonna feed them anyway, just in case something happens over here. Or if I have a rooster that has everything is great, but his comb is as crooked as a politician. But I have a pullet that has one that's perfect, and I know from experience I can put a hen with a perfect comb with a rooster with a jacked-up comb together, and their offspring will give me wonderful combs, hen or rooster. But because I've made all those records, I know that, and I start, you know, I put them together. So sometimes you need some with traits to offset other traits to make more breeding pins, because at the end of the day, it's a numbers game.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Okay, Carrie, I hate to interrupt you, but we do need to kind of keep on tasking. We're getting a little bit behind. Folks, two more questions that you should be thinking about as you're doing your evaluation. Wherever mistakes made, most likely to occur. And if you make a mistake and then just keep repeating it in your management program, in your nutrition program, in your reading program, and be honest with yourself. And you know, we've talked a lot over the past few months about observing your birds. Well, you know, if if you're observing your birds, did your birds tell you anything that made you think, oh man, I probably shouldn't have done that? So just evaluate us as you go through. Let's go over to housing and daily management. We talked about ventilation a couple of a couple of shows ago. Jeff, what are some things that they could look at that might give them an idea of how they can improve next year with ventilation?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

You mean for winter or summer or in general. Okay. So it all comes down to birds per square foot, right? And placement, and you know, you need to know your property before you even build a building, right? Where your prevailing wind's coming from, how do you capture that without it overwhelming the birds? Yeah. So you know, I mean, your air quality is number one, right? It don't matter about anything else. I don't care if you've got the perfect Rhode Island Reds. If the air quality is horrible, it's gonna show up in every aspect of that bird. Don't matter what the feed is, don't matter what the water is, don't matter what bloodlines you've got. So air is everything. Or it's number one on the priority pole. The number one thing that I see people doing is they have chicken math, and they have too many birds in a barn or too small a space, right? And they're overstocked. You know, pretty soon you got pen stacked, you know, you got a bird every two foot, and you know, they never such the barn was never designed for that. You know, they got a barn designed for a hundred birds, and in three years they got 200 birds in that barn. Right. Yeah, so chicken math is overwhelming, and you know, people gotta dial it in, you know, kind of like what Carrie's talking about. You know, he's cutting back his numbers, he's only you know, managing X number of birds throughout the year. You know, that's gonna be a key component. I don't know, you know, I it it it goes on and on for air quality because it, you know, you're talking you're looking at litter management. You know, how bad does it smell out there? You know, uh look, I was a kid once, and it was my job to clean out the chicken coop and clean up after the animals and do all that, and I can tell you that fishing was more important or something. Baseball game, the pickup baseball game down the road was more important, right? And so I I get it, but yeah, either we're dedicated to do it right or we accept the results of not doing it right.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

You and I were talking about ventilation and it's uh brought up by basically something Jeff said in that show we talked about. But what did you find that you could do better about your ventilation?

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Well, the the one pen that I have that I have concerns about ventilation is my closed-in big coop or the crab stay. And I'm gonna be looking at getting one of those fans that Jeff was talking about, those bathroom fans, and fixing like a box around the window that I can put up and get the air moving in there. That's one it the last two winters it's been bad in there. You know, when we get really cold weather and I gotta stock birds in there to keep them from getting frostbite, the air quality definitely goes down despite me being out there two, three times a day cleaning and you know, doing what I can, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Folks, Sue's doing exactly what we talked about. She identified a problem in her management. Yeah, she's figured out what to do about it, and so. She's going to correct that. So I would not be surprised to see next year if your ventilation issues are not nearly as large as they are now.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Correct. All right.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Have any of y'all ever and man, I know I did, uh, been in a situation where water, mud, litter, or manure created uh avoidable problems. I know for me it was water when I lived in Ocala because we had pitiful drainage up there.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah. Nine out of two times it's water. Yep.

unknown 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah. Water and and you know, feed that gets spilled on the ground, it's like that feed makes up scum on top and then hardens up like concrete, and then you get puddles of water out there that don't absorb into the ground.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

No, I was talking with somebody about that today. And I said, well, it's not only the feed, yeah, but if you don't keep changing the location of your feeder, yeah, it's the manure as well.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

And that's almost impermeable, about as impermeable as concrete.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

You have to take a pick out there, and it's it's like two inches thick, comes up.

SPEAKER_05 23:20

I love I love my rotor to so Sue, be careful.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

When you where the feed was spilled, right, when you remove those clumps, it is extremely important for you to treat that dirt area with the lime. Lime. Okay. So what grows underneath those heavy carbohydrates in an anaerobic environment, which you just described, yes, it is high levels of clostridium.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Clostridium, okay. So when the grain fermented, it gives off an aroma, not pleasurable to you or any of us, but it it attracts a chicken, and there's really high levels of clostridium there that can lead to botulism, right? So just be careful, yeah. You know, uh that when you remove it, that you put something to sanitize it, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Just be safe. You know I do. It's like when I see people's chicken yards and there's a pothole out there, you you know, if you you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Well, the big ridge, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

And I see the hens pecking at the bottom of that pothole. Scares me to death. I mean, right? That I that that's where the botulism's coming from. You know, I'd rather not, you know, like Carrie said, the rotor till it's great, but if you don't have one, then yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

I've got one, it just won't crack that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 24:48

You know, you gotta let it get thick.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Yeah, you gotta go out there with a pick and yeah, hit it with a pick, yeah, and then break it up.

SPEAKER_05 24:58

One of the things that I've started doing is you know, you want to make your roost poles kind of permanent inside your pins so they don't wiggle and cause other problems. But I've started moving mine around. I've been making roost bars, if you will, that are about the size of really short tall horses. And you know, I make them about 18, 20 inches tall. And if you've ever checked out, you know, you got birds that stand on the roost for long periods of time, and you know, you'll have a little mound right below it. But when you can move those things around, and you know, I do it once a month. The first weekend of the month, I do a lot, you know, different types of maintenance. And I found that being able to move those around has really helped with you know the mess getting so hard that you need a pick and something like that out there and get through it.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Well let's uh let's well let's just think about this for a second, right? If we hadn't domesticated the chicken, it would never happen. They're constantly on the move, right? They're always looking for the next meal, whatever, right? And they're very nomadic or migratory. So, you know, we created the situation, so we have to be prepared to remedy the problem. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

You know, I was just having this discussion with somebody a couple of days ago who said uh we were talking and he was having this issue and that issue. I said, You feed your birds on the ground. Yeah. So it's probably a good idea not to do that. He said, Chickens in the wild eat off the ground all the time. I said, Yeah, but chickens in the wild are not 20 chickens and a 10 by 10 poop. Yeah. He said, You know, I never thought of that.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah. Carrie's famous saying, if you'd like to eat where you poop.

unknown 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

I mean, I I don't I don't eat my fruity pebbles out of the toilet.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Let's um let's take a little break and uh say thank you. We would like to take a short break to express our appreciation to the Portrail Company for their sponsorship of the Poultry Keeper 360 Live programming. Portrail has been trust the name of sustainable farming and open nutrition for decades, and their commitment to providing high-quality, natural products aligned perfectly with the values we hold there in our poultry community. Thank you, Protrail, for partnering with us to empower Poultry Keepers everywhere. We're truly grateful for your dedication and support. We certainly are appreciative. And hey, folks, coming up next month, they're having big doings for trail.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

We are. We're having our 80th anniversary, and then we're having a big old open house. We're gonna roast two pigs, we're gonna barbecue, I think 300 chickens, something like that, our halves, our leg quarters. Yeah, got a bunch of games, dunk tank, all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 28:44

Also, I just I'm just excited that Jeff's gonna be in the dunk tank.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Only for two hours. Or one or two hours, anyway. A lot can happen. A lot can happen. Also, everybody needs to know that the whole team is going to be at Ohio Nationals in November. Right? So if you're there, come by. Come on by and say hi. We're all gonna be there. Absolutely. Gonna be a fun time.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Always is at that show.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

And you know, if you're listening to us and you're within driving distance, even if you're not showing, come on by and say hi. We'd love to sit and visit with you, talk checkers.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

We always have a good time at the show at the audience.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

So good times are us. Well, folks, I I just want to remind you that we haven't had any questions yet, but you are more than welcome to go to the comment section and type in a question, and we'll answer it live right here on the air. So got a question? Let us know what it is. Please. Sue, question for you.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Have you ever done an evaluation of your watering system?

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Of my what?

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Watering.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Yes. Yes. Yeah, it was a disaster last year. So yeah, that's that's also on the list. Well it was. I mean, I ended up one of my birds got uh frostbite on his wattles from drinking water in his wattles freezing. So I think that was completely on me, and it's gonna be a fixed situation this year.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

Two, I'm laughing, but I was right there with you a couple years ago. My biggest problem, my water was a disaster.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

If you're in those colder climates, you you yeah, I don't know. It's really tough. It's either cups or nipples, right? Anything with a big trough, especially when you got older birds with big wattles, yeah. It's tough.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

It's tough.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

I may switch to the cups. They they drink out of them pretty good, but I'm gonna have to find some, you know, some deeper cups than what I've got. You know, like for a duck or a goose or something. Got a little dip to it.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

I don't have any place to send you to look for those, but you got your probably find some up in uh Uh huh.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yeah, I might.

unknown 31:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Uh yeah. It's it you know, those birds drink a lot of water even during the wintertime, the big reds.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Man, they drink a lot of water.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

You should actually be looking at something like the turkey nipples or a turkey sized cup just because of how big their head is.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, those automatic automatic water things, they they don't they they won't fit.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

You know, too. A minute ago you were talking about the fan and the crab car building. You know, if people would kind of send me pictures, like if you'd send me pictures of your setup, is there any way for you to do the circulating water like Terry's doing with and then you could put a stock, a stock heater in it, right? Is there any electric out there or no?

SPEAKER_03 32:16

No. Okay. I'd have to run an extension cord, but I normally do anyway.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

If it, you know, if you keep the water moving, it's less likely to freeze. Moving water doesn't freeze as easy. So but that's not, I mean, you're still looking at issues as far as wattles and yeah, yeah, freeze wattles.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

That's my main problem, is them dipping those wattles down in the water. I gotta figure something out to to stop that.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Yeah. You know, if you had a way to do a if you had a way to do a water line, you could go ahead and and test out some nipple waters and and see if you could get them used to that.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Get them to drink out of it.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

We got a question here. I was wondering about what's the difference if I use granulated garlic powder on chicken water, then use the real garlic sometimes because I'm in a rush.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Okay, so you're never gonna beat the raw garlic. If you bruise it, let it turn that, you know, start turning that tan caramel color, and then use it in the water, you you're gonna get a higher level of allicin release, which is the enzyme activity. So raw is always gonna win. You know, if you don't have the time, garlic granules or garlic powder will work. It just seems to take twice as long to get the same job done.

SPEAKER_05 33:53

You can get the diced garlic that comes in a glass jar.

unknown 33:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 34:00

You know, that that would be quicker, and it's actual real garlic and the liquid instead of the powder.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

So there's a preservative. I think there's a preservative in there. I thought there was something they added in the garlic powder? I don't I'd have to look, but yeah. Yeah, no, no, no, in the diced garlic that you get at the store.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

You know mine comes in olive oil. So I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

So that's going to also reduce that release of Alice. And like I said, you know, it's just hard to beat raw. But you know, we've given the recipe away for making your own garlic tincture for years, right? And evidently only one in a hundred people make it. Then you don't have to use the fresh garlic. The garlic tincture has all those benefits, and that would be your quick escape for treating something with garlic.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

We've got another question here. Let's go ahead and pop it up there. Hodge and Hens Urban Farm says, Hey there, I have some dirty vents on my girls and some color loss in their cones. Diarrhea. I have been feeding oregano, chili pepper flakes, as well as wormwood to no fail. Now she's got a follow-up comment about. Here we go. She said, I should specify that I am supplementing, not exclusively feeding that thing. I also add apple cider vinegar to the water.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Well, it it is kind of molt season. I wonder if her birds are have a little bit of a fever and if they're starting into that early molt would be the first thing that I would suspect. You know, also with the messy back ends, I wonder if she got, you know, if she got a tainted or bad bag of feed, you know, bag of feed that was like really too old or maybe had a little bit of molt in it. So I don't know what she's feeding. That would throw them off as well. The third thing that I often see, and I'm gonna hurt some feelings, but so what? Is people feed too many vegetables and garden scraps or kitchen scraps, and that will also trigger, you know, pasty butts and messy backsides. So a little bit is fine, a lot is not.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Okay, we'll get back to where we left off here. Um let's talk about nutrition and condition for a little bit. I know some folks we were talking about this earlier in the show, they jump around from one thing to another but without really evaluating what's going on with the nutritional program. Jeff what do changes in our bird body condition say about your feeding program?

SPEAKER_01 37:16

It says everything about your feeding program. I mean, you know, the quality of your feed is going to change the confirmation. It look, it starts all the way back at chick, and we've covered this a lot, but you know, how the bird develops and at what rate it grows and things like that, but it you know, it it'll alter condition, it'll alter it actually will you know the whole configuration. But most feeds on the market are too high in carbohydrates, and you know, they don't really care, right? And they'll put even flavor additives or other things in there to kind of trigger the because they know that most people are free choice feeding, right? They let their bird eat as much as they want, right? In us hobby farm, you know, people they it's free choice feed. They don't care if your chicken gets fat, right? And they don't really, you know, because you're gonna go buy another one, right? If you haven't already. So they're gonna keep feeding the chicken. So they don't, you know, they're not worried about overconditioning, they're not necessarily worried about balance, they're worried about making a profit. Okay. The end of the day, the profit can use why they're in business.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, yeah, but uh we got a follow-up comment from Hugs and the end. She's gonna just really feel like more.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, I don't know if it's all of them, if it's a few of them. Again, you know, a picture of the run, you know, the area, the living conditions. You know, usually messy backsides, if it's not from moldy feed or what they're eating, comes is triggered by you know, wet, muddy living conditions. Especially if they've eaten like spilled feed off the ground or something else off the ground. You know, then I would start looking that direction.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Um what about feeding feed well feeding feed and supplements? And I I know you you got a really good pity supplement out on the market at those carrying.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

And I've used them both and I've had excellent results with Well, I wish I didn't have to make it, but you know, people want to buy feed down the road, right? Yeah. They want to go to tractor supply, rural king, whatever, and they want to buy you know twenty dollar feed. Yeah, they want to buy cheap feed down the road. So it was a band-aid to fix a common problem. Okay, it doesn't fix it, but it makes it better. Yeah, so you know, if the feed's right, supplement doesn't make a difference. You know, way back when Karen was on the show with us, like way back in the early beginning. So Karen was one of my guinea pigs, so to speak, and I sent her some of the breeder supplement to try it. Okay. She was already making her own feed, she was already making her own high-quality feed. She saw no difference whatsoever. Everyone who was buying bag feed at the local feed supply saw huge differences. So, what does that tell you? Right?

SPEAKER_04 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

And I know um when I first tried the supplement, and I thought I was feeding a pretty good feed, but I have since learned that that was not the case. I saw a huge difference in the look of my birds, the attitude of my birds, and the performance of my birds. But if you if you're gonna feed the inexpensive feed, really consider a supplement of some sort.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

And you know there's not many good ones on the market, so be careful how you work that really. Well, because you've been in this business long enough and you fed other supplements before Carrie and I came along. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

So I yeah, I will say this, and you're right, I did try the supplements, but I never felt like I got my money's worth because I didn't see any difference in my bird until I tried yourself. And then it was like, wow, getting hit in the face with a wet bottle.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

You know, you were talking about attitude grip. That was one of the first things I noticed feeding that breeder supplement was the birds were calm. They weren't they weren't concrete, they weren't ravenous, they weren't anxious. They were just like, oh hi, you know, they they even the baby chicks, because I'm really funny, really funny because that was the first thing I said to Jeff after I'd had my birthday just a short period of time. Yep, just smooth them right out. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

So I see this with because we work with all animals that you would see on a farm, when you when you hit the sweet spot and you get the nutrition right and you're meeting their needs, all the animals calm down. Calm down, right? And they just they're just like you want them to be, right? So they calm right down. So disposition is always the first thing you see change, right? And then you start to see the attributes like you know, better comb color, better eye clarity, feather, all that comes along, right? But yeah, disposition or personality is the first changes you'll see.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

Yeah. I mean, the same is true with Jeff. If you catch him after his coffee, his personality is totally different, his demeanor is better. Everything everything's there.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Um, and I'm I'm just gonna say one of the things that's up on this before we move on here. Um I I hear, well, supplements are expensive. Well, who is feeding cheap feeding? But I had I one of the first things I noticed is that my birds were not ready to attack me every time they saw me trying to get something to eat.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Even if there was feeding the feeder. And I saw I was working with a couple three freaks in, but I saw a real reduction in the amount of feed that was being consumed. So that's the biggest thing I've noticed. I was saving money. But you will save money.

SPEAKER_05 45:01

But for me, you know, time is money. The results are money. Everything is worth something. And you can either get different things, mix them up, put your supplements, your oil, mix everything up in a concrete mixer, spend a couple of hours every weekend doing it. Or you can spend a few bucks more on a bag of feet and not have to buy supplements, not have to buy a concrete mixer, and you know, go down rabbit holes. Open the bag, scoop it, feed it. And you know, I I my birds are getting four, they were probably eating four to five ounces beforehand. And now last time I weighed one of my scoops that I used, it was like 2.7 something ounces. And yeah, you know, you say, okay, well, that's 40% reduction.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah, if I remember correctly, that's the same amount of weed that Karen amount that feeding the birds. Started out at four ounces and just went down.

SPEAKER_05 46:15

So because even with her banners that she had, she had beautiful birds, and she was feeding them, you know, a recipe that Jeff made, but they were getting big, and and she had to put them on a diet.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Hey, we got a question here for Jeff, I think. I started mixing my own feed with the formula Jeff and I worked on. I've noticed in the past few days they're eating everything but the oats. Should I replace the oats with a different grain?

SPEAKER_01 46:50

I would I would not. I would tell you that you're probably feeding them too much. Like we were just talking about here with Karen. Folks Rhode Island Reds, you know, very much standard to the standard. And she had like eight, eight or nine or ten-pound males. And if she fed more than two and a half ounces, they got fat. Right. So she was down to two, two, two and a half ounces. So I think you're probably still feeding them too much weight of feed, cut them back, maintenance level. Then we talk about the breed, but maintenance probably two, two and a half ounces, go from there.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Oh, here's a comment from my neighbor. They say right now Southwest Florida, 95% of my birds are moping. There's a lot of rain and heat. So I notice my girls, which are game foul, have stopped weighing, and I give them good balance feet that I can weigh myself. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 48:05

Yeah. Most most of most of my birds, it don't matter if it's a game foul, a red, a brass. Well, when they start molten, there's definitely a change in the lay-in.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Here's another comment though from Hogan Hans. Uh thanks. I'll check out the feed bin for tonight that molten.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

They're friends with Kim and Bud Miller up in Michigan. Um I, you know, even coming from your feed supplier, don't tell us who they are tonight, please. But we don't want to throw anybody out of the bus. Right. But yeah, you may want to email me tomorrow or soon. Let me know the feed manufacturer. Not everybody makes good feed, so it could be either a feed handling or a feed quality issue that's got a trigger.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Oh boy, and here's uh one of my favorite. I have access to talifresh from a butcher. And I place it in the crock pot to melt, then use as an oil to make the supplements.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

That is awesome. Don't let that source go away. You can use you can use a crock pot, you can use like an electric turkey roaster pan, a big one. You can do it on the stove, but I'd I'd tell you to use a crock big crock pot or a big turkey roaster pan. Probably set it outside somewhere. You may not like the smell in your house, right? And just you know, stir it every now and then a couple times a day and skim off the cracklings and throw throw that in the the feed bucket too. Yeah, throw that in the feed bucket too. Yeah, and then you know, store as much of it as you can. But tallow is like number one, I guess. Liquid gold gold. Liquid gold is right. So yeah, you can start packaging and selling that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 50:17

Yeah. Hey, people do. I've seen it on Amazon and they're proud of it. It's getting expensive. It is.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

We start to get some comments in here. This is great. How important is it to have activities for chickens to do in long cold months? Or does it matter?

SPEAKER_01 50:45

You know, and Chris being in Alaska, Chris, the the the number one thing I would tell you to do is you know, get a horse hay bag or you know, like a hay bag for hanging hay and get a good supply of hay. A few enrichment items in their living quarters don't hurt, but they really get bored with everything after a little bit of time. Yeah, but for them to be able to you know peck at some dry baled hay will resolve a lot of cabin fever aggression when you get to the middle of winter. Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

So even head of cabbage.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Head of cabbage works. Something green form to back at.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

I prefer it to be hanging so they get more out of it before it you know gets in the bedding.

SPEAKER_05 51:41

I was gonna say you don't want it in the bedding.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

No. Yeah, y'all, you know, up in Alaska they grow gigantic cabbages.

SPEAKER_05 51:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Probably can't hang it on the roof. You might need a cane to hold it up there. Yeah, you'll have to reinforce the seat. Or that thing. They don't have a ball with that.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

We should have told them that at the beginning of the growing season, not the end of the growing season. Oh, they've already had, you know, they've already probably had their first cross.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Yeah, they're done for the year.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yeah. Let's see. What do you got? Well, that's kind of scary. I've made I've made multiple changes based on information you guys have provided. Thank you for your time, we are more than happy to do this show tonight.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

We can have a lot of fun. And I think how many years are we up to now? Four. We're working on five now.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

I was gonna say I think it's five.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Sometimes it's like we just started sometimes it's like one of the longest running poultry shows on YouTube. I think so. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

Yeah. But we enjoy it. And it's uh I think I've had some of my most rewarding experiences uh with this show and with our keep 660. Awesome. What do you guys recommend to use on chicks that have that got foul pots? I separated them, it is only two stacks about two months old.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

So if if the nutrition is really spot on, like excellent, you know, we're hitting all the vitamin numbers and everything like that, they should live right through it without any problems whatsoever. Yep. If you've made the garlic tincture, you can put a little bit of the garlic tincture in their drinking water. That'll also help them fight it off. Or you can bruise a close of clove of garlic, then you kind of slice it up a little bit, throw it in a gallon of water, let it soak for 24 hours, and start using that. I mean, the garlic tincture is stronger and works faster, but a little bit of garlic in the water, it's gonna help out as far as fighting off that infection. But the big key is proper nutrition. There's no reason for a bird to die from foulpox, except you know, poor living conditions and bad nutrition.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Okay, I think we've got a comment question up to date here.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Oh, you get one more for Chris.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

The record cabbage this year, 132 pounds.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

If that thing had fallen on me, it'd put a dip on me.

SPEAKER_03 54:57

That'd break your foot. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

They're not continuous freezing yet, but they they're getting into the ponies at night.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

So that's can't think about all the power crap you could make with that. Oh my goodness. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

You could you could make at least a winner's worth. Not a not an Alaska winner for it, you wouldn't, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. An Alabama winner's worth, maybe. That's a lot. That's huge. Talk about beating me. Sorry, Rip. That's all I have another point to cover.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

You can keep going, but I was trying to catch my place, but I'm up to it now. So what do you think should be evaluated before birds are selected and paired for breeding?

unknown 55:53

I know.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

What I look at, you know, good traits, bad traits. You know, is one stronger in this and another stronger in that? Size, housing, you know, if I've got enough room, that's you know, my limitation is room. Uh if I had it my way, I'd have 13 more tickets, but um I don't, so I have to be very selective on pairing up birds. Am I gonna do pedigree breeding or am I just gonna do clan mating? A lot of a lot of thought goes into it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

And and you know, pedigree breeding is great.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Yeah, you got the right.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

It is pretty labor-intensive, I'll be honest. Yeah, so if you're thinking about doing that, take into consideration it's gonna take you longer to work that program.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Uh maybe next spring's project.

SPEAKER_05 57:01

You keep you keep having some of them pullets look like the one you sent the picture of the other day, and yeah, you'll have that fine-tuned pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

Chris from Alaska corrected it was 122 pounds this year. But the current current record holder is 138 from 2012.

unknown 57:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

I can't even imagine that.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

No, I really can't. You get you need two men and a child to move that thing.

SPEAKER_04 57:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Not to mention a couple of teams of mules.

SPEAKER_04 57:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:41

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 57:42

And talking about breeding, did your records provide you with enough information to guide next year's decision?

SPEAKER_03 57:52

In some ways, yes, in some ways not. Um I lost one of my two cockbirds, so that's kind of gave me a sharp flip turn. So I have to I'm gonna have to sit down some evening and just put a lot of thought into breeding. I have two really good cockbirds, but we'll see. We'll see how the young boys shape up.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Well, you still have the genetics there, so he's not the genetics, right?

SPEAKER_03 58:28

But no, but he thought he threw some.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

But that boy was pretty nice.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Yeah, he threw some good good bullets. Yes, he did. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

So I mean the genetics are there. Yeah, it just may take you another breeding cycle or two to get another one as good.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

You know, another thing I encourage people to think about is what breeding season tasks or chores could be completed during the winter months. You know, and some of the things that hit my mind right off on some of the things we talked about here. You know, planning your meetings, planning your breeds, uh, evaluating your birds. And one thing that a lot of folks overlook is getting our birds in condition to be.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

Yeah, right now.

SPEAKER_05 59:33

The cooler months is also a time when the the repairs to the coops and to the runs that you've been putting off because it was 115 outside, it's not so bad to do them when it's 60.

unknown 59:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:51

So, you know, that that time of year that for Alabama, we're not there yet. Alaska, they're already past it.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

But yeah, you know, that's I mean, it's also a good time to build everybody needs bachelor quarters. Still, I can't get people to separate their their roosters from the hens. Right. And so if you that that 30 to 45 days or 60 days of separation will greatly enhance your fertility rate when you bring them back together.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Yeah, it's it's uh, you know, it was about winter block resets, and something that will definitely benefit from a reset.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:38

So one of the things that I've done this year, well, I'm actually in the process of doing it now, is getting like a four foot by four foot cage and putting a two by six around the bottom of it to add weight to it, you know, roof and all that, but for the roosters, so I can take them out and put them to where they don't have access, they can see the hens. So it's like you know, they're getting a show, but they're not getting to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

And better off if they can't see them. Really? You yeah, if the if you can break visual contact, but they can hear them from a distance, that'll absolutely drive them insane. That'll get I could do that. That'll get their testosterone level as high as you're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

Yeah, I can I can do that too.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Yeah, just be careful when you bring them back together to mate. You may only want to leave them in there for you know six hours or something like that. Because he's gonna wear that henna out if you're doing single mating.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:46

Oh, yeah, I would with single mating, I would probably not even go, not even go six hours. Yeah, an hour or an hour or two should be good.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

We're gonna know here, but I'm gonna try to get all this stuff in to be focused. Think about how you can tell whether the problem lies in the system or because you weren't applying the system properly. And I have found that to be the truth a lot of times when I was doing things. I had this great system, but if I'm not working it, it doesn't do you didn't do me a bit of good. I had to learn that's the hard way.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

Yeah, yeah, we all do. You gotta learn to follow your own instructions. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Whether you didn't do it, you didn't know it, you didn't ask the right question, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

But that's for sure. That's for sure. You know, and we talked tonight about all the things you should change and the things to change and how to look at it. But one thing we overlook sometimes we have things that are working really well, but we don't need to change those. You know, it's the old if it's not broke, don't fix it. If it's working well for you, move on and go to the next thing on your checklist.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Um well now wait, I I'm not gonna argue with you, but how do you know if you don't go to a show or you don't go to someone else's facilities to compare, how do you know if it's working well for you or not? You gotta have you have to have a measuring stick to compare yourself to. Okay, that's all I wanted to add to that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

And and you know, and you know, I don't want to take it just purely from a show position, all right? Because there's folks out there they could care less about children. Your standard book is uh, but if you've got goals set for these kinds of things, how well did your birds meet those goals? Did they exceed those goals? Or were they out in way in field for away from the goals? Have them in use and you know, we were talking about this earlier. I think when we try to change too many things at one time, you know, if it works, we don't know what works. Right. Take it one step at a time. This is what I always tell them. Don't change six things at one time.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:59

Yeah, you don't know which one works.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Right, you know, change one thing, give it time to work. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, well I can tweak you a little bit. And Jeff, along that line, how do you think poultry keepers can't do that without changing?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

Is there anything earlier you and Sue said it, right? When you make a positive change, when you make a change, the demeanor of your bird will change for either the for the good or the bad. So if you are good enough to see that personality change or demeanor change in your bird, you'll know within two weeks if you made the right change. It's it's not hard.

unknown 1:05:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:59

So You know, that's what when you finally get happy birds that are very content and you know happy to see you. Look, I did a flock inspection earlier today, not to drag this out, but for an example, I walked into a pullet barn where the man raises replacing the pullets. Okay. When I walk into a chicken house, if the chickens don't come up and start pecking at my shoelaces, there's a problem. Okay. Now I gotta figure out what it is. Right. So if I come to visit your place and your chickens don't come up to see who I am, start pecking my shoelaces, start pecking my pant leg, there's room for improvement. Right? That's the way to measure it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Um I think we've got all the comments and questions covered.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

Melissa made a good point with her last comment.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:05

Oh, yeah. You can get to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Yeah, chicken people go from zero to a hundred.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Yeah. That's a pretty good evaluation. Especially when they first get into it, man. There's like on ramp merging on a highway.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:23

But there's that's because there's so many people that say you gotta hatch a hundred to get ten.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:29

And and it's the whole culling part once they find that 10 that that they can't do.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:39

You know, that that's the part.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:42

Well, that's something we all struggle with at one time or another.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

Uh still do it. Oh, yeah. I mean, uh, still do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Come on, you're a hard caller. You know, I I heard a man once say every time he walks into his chicken flock, or when he walks into his chicken, you know, setup, uh, he looks at every bird and says, Why do I keep you? That's right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:11

Not why should I get rid of you? Why am I feeding you? Why are you good enough to stay here?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Give me a reason to keep you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

And when you become a serious chicken breeder, not a pet owner, that's how you look at things when you go walk your flock.

unknown 1:08:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

You know, we've covered a lot of ground tonight. I think we have a dirty though. We've got tons of good comments and questions. I really appreciate those. And we hope that you've got some good information from us tonight, too. Uh, if you still have a question after the show, just post it there. You can go right on YouTube and post your question and in the comment section. We'll do our best to answer it for you. So bye, Cody. We're gonna be back in two weeks. We don't know what we're gonna talk about yet. We know we're gonna talk about something. So we don't hope that you'll set aside the time to join us for another hour of fun and learning. So until next time. Jeff Harry and Sue, do y'all have any parting words of wisdom you'd like to share? See y'all next time. See you next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

See you in two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

All right. See you in two weeks, folks. Thanks for listening. Bye bye.